8 ms·

The Sexodus, Part 1: The men giving up on women and checking out of society

23 points by johanbrook 12y ago

PaulHoule 12y ago
I wouldn't blame it all on radical feminists. Few people realize that the chief idea behind the 1995 'welfare reform' in the US was that a lot of single moms on welfare were not getting a dime from dad. Before then you could go to the next state and there was nothing they could do to you, and many 'deadbeat dads' would stay in the same state, not pay, and not face any real sanction. Today it is a federal crime to not pay interstate child support and they can efficiently deduct payments from your bank account and paycheck. In some cases the new system is an improvement but it is not hard to find cases where some guy has to pay more support than he can afford to a mom who makes a lot more money. Another problem I see is that almost no men are involved in early child care and elementary education. I think kids get a number of bad messages, but the worst is that school is a 'girl thing'. In any cass the phenomenon here is well advanced in Japan and nobody has blamed feminism there, but the integration of women in the workforce has a huge number of unintended consequences. It is one of the major causes of social mobility freezing in the US. Back then a man would rise socially and bring a family with him, but now the pool of people who satisfy people prejudices has been doubled so men and women from rich families can fill all the good jobs.
eyeJam 12y ago
I'm not really buying this. Look at the Nordic countries that rank highest in the world in gender equality[1]. They certainly don't have problems with men "checking out". In Sweden and Iceland the difference between male and female unemployment is a couple percentage points (< 5%)[2][3]. As with any major economic change (industrialization, technological revolution, etc..) there will be growing pains. Bringing women into the workforce is a massive change and of course there will be some casualties. But as with the industrial and technological revolutions, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone saying life was better before these events (environmental problems not withstanding) [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Gender_Gap_Report http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Gender_Gap_Report [2] http://www.tradingeconomics.com/sweden/long-term-unemployment-male-percent-of-male-unemployment-wb-data.html http://www.tradingeconomics.com/sweden/long-term-unemploymen... [3] http://www.tradingeconomics.com/iceland/long-term-unemployment-female-percent-of-female-unemployment-wb-data.html http://www.tradingeconomics.com/iceland/long-term-unemployme...
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
sbate1987 12y ago
Seriously boo hoooo Man up for a fucking change and deal with it. This is the same cry baby crap as gamer gate.. If a man is not having sex with a woman.. its because he wants to have sex with men.. We have to deal with the hand we are dealt. I like women and am not afraid to admit it. I could go on and on about how screwed over I have been because I am a man who works for a living but I dont.. I just find a woman I can relate to and learn to love and be loved. We owe a debt to the men and women who change our culture and make treating women with respect and humanity possible. It makes us less violent and less prone to being killed in a war. So I say get over your bromance fetish and deal with being set free
- fluxquanta 12y ago
  It's attitudes like those you've presented here that play a big role in the withdrawal from society a lot of these people (myself included) face. >If a man is not having sex with a woman.. its because he wants to have sex with men.. If I have a choice between attempting to deal with women who have no interest in me (or a vain interest) with potential destructive consequences to my quality of life, or choosing instead to just say "fuck it" and withdraw to my comfortable job and pornography, I'm going to (and have for years) pick the latter. That doesn't make me "gay", it makes me unwilling to take an inflated risk for little reward. A truly equal relationship is appealing to me, as it would be to others, but that is harder and harder to find. But you keep doing you. Flaunt your alpha male superiority in our faces. We frankly don't care, because that's not a system we want to be part of if we can help it.
  - gharial 12y ago
    You're not "facing withdrawal", though. You are choosing to withdrawal due to what reads like an inability to handle day to day situations. I certainly don't think forgoing relationships implies anything about someone's sexuality, but your attitude certainly does come off as immature. We all deal with people having superficial interests (or disinterest) in us on a near daily basis. Platonic and otherwise. To say "fuck it, I'm out" for your own reasons is one thing, but to blame society/modern women or act like well adjusted people drove your hand is really juvenile. It's not a matter of "alpha male superiority" - which, again, gives a very frightening look at your perspective.
pmoriarty 12y ago
One can have a perfectly fulfilling life without a partner, and lack of a partner doesn't mean your life is "empty". People in relationships aren't necessarily happier or more fulfilled than others. There are plenty of relationships that are dysfunctionnal while they last and miserable when they end. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to notice that, or blame feminism to opt out of it.
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  I'd like to see some references for that claim. Far as I know, most measures of quality of life improve with a partner. Even blood pressure for heavens sake. I suspect 'sour grapes' at work here.
  - fluxquanta 12y ago
    >I'd like to see some references for that claim. Far as I know, most measures of quality of life improve with a partner. You can tell you're on Hacker News when someone asks for verifiable sources for things like feelings, hah.
rainmaking 12y ago
Okay, so those men who will only accept a woman's company if she is subordinate are having a harder time to find a willing partner. What's wrong with that?
- eyeJam 12y ago
  Apparently there's enough wrong with that to justify a 2716 word screed (and that's just part 1!!!)
  - rainmaking 12y ago
    I can write part 2 in Perl. print "whine"x2716
- zo1 12y ago
  That's a completely false misrepresentation of what the article is talking about. To boil it all down to "men can't find willing partners if 'she' isn't subordinate to them" is quite frankly, very dishonest. I'm disappointed if you didn't actually read the article before commenting on it the way you did. But I would be quite a bit less appalled at that option, than the one of you having actually read the article, and still interpreted the way it seems you did from your post.
  - rainmaking 12y ago
    If it's a false misrepresentation, that would make it a true representation, no? Regardless, be appalled, I read it and all I heard was an obsolete species of man whining that it sucks to be a dinosaur.
magikid 12y ago
This is a parody article, right?
- eyeJam 12y ago
  He even trotted out that worn-out trope that woman use rape allegations as a tool against men. That argument should be taken out behind the barn and shot. Its old and it don't hunt no mo'. I was really hoping for some thought-provoking counterpoints to feminism, but sadly there were none to be found. Just some anecdotal whinging and a couple quotes from the Ann Coulter of feminism.
  - zo1 12y ago
    Just calling something "a worn-out trope" does not make it false, or any less serious. It needs to be studied, verified, and denied if that is the case. But until then, there have been numerous studies with wildly differing findings. Everywhere for 1.5-2% all the way up to 90%. Even if it's just 1.5-2%, that is no laughing matter, or one to be dismissed as as old, or "shot". Many studies regarding false-rape accusations are linked to from the wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape
mydpy 12y ago
Thank you for posting this. It was a fascinating read.
Tyguy7 12y ago
My feelings are very similar to the author of this article.
mcv 12y ago
What a horrid piece of crap that article is. I feel dirty just trying to read it. At its core, it complains that men don't and can't know "the rules", and yet it complains about the existence of (unfortunately but clearly necessary) classes that teach them those rules (consent). The article even explicitly doesn't like that you need consent at all. At that point I really don't know what to say anymore. This article is coming from a really toxic attitude about women and sex. In any case, I think that whatever problems there are, are mainly caused by extreme gender segregation. The more culture treats men and women as totally different species, the more misunderstanding and lack of respect there's going to be. More egalitarian societies don't have this problem.

23 points by johanbrook 12y ago

I wouldn't blame it all on radical feminists. Few people realize that the chief idea behind the 1995 'welfare reform' in the US was that a lot of single moms on welfare were not getting a dime from dad. Before then you could go to the next state and there was nothing they could do to you, and many 'deadbeat dads' would stay in the same state, not pay, and not face any real sanction. Today it is a federal crime to not pay interstate child support and they can efficiently deduct payments from your bank account and paycheck. In some cases the new system is an improvement but it is not hard to find cases where some guy has to pay more support than he can afford to a mom who makes a lot more money. Another problem I see is that almost no men are involved in early child care and elementary education. I think kids get a number of bad messages, but the worst is that school is a 'girl thing'. In any cass the phenomenon here is well advanced in Japan and nobody has blamed feminism there, but the integration of women in the workforce has a huge number of unintended consequences. It is one of the major causes of social mobility freezing in the US. Back then a man would rise socially and bring a family with him, but now the pool of people who satisfy people prejudices has been doubled so men and women from rich families can fill all the good jobs.

eyeJam 12y ago

I'm not really buying this. Look at the Nordic countries that rank highest in the world in gender equality[1]. They certainly don't have problems with men "checking out". In Sweden and Iceland the difference between male and female unemployment is a couple percentage points (< 5%)[2][3]. As with any major economic change (industrialization, technological revolution, etc..) there will be growing pains. Bringing women into the workforce is a massive change and of course there will be some casualties. But as with the industrial and technological revolutions, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone saying life was better before these events (environmental problems not withstanding) [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Gender_Gap_Report http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Gender_Gap_Report [2] http://www.tradingeconomics.com/sweden/long-term-unemployment-male-percent-of-male-unemployment-wb-data.html http://www.tradingeconomics.com/sweden/long-term-unemploymen... [3] http://www.tradingeconomics.com/iceland/long-term-unemployment-female-percent-of-female-unemployment-wb-data.html http://www.tradingeconomics.com/iceland/long-term-unemployme...

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

sbate1987 12y ago

Seriously boo hoooo Man up for a fucking change and deal with it. This is the same cry baby crap as gamer gate.. If a man is not having sex with a woman.. its because he wants to have sex with men.. We have to deal with the hand we are dealt. I like women and am not afraid to admit it. I could go on and on about how screwed over I have been because I am a man who works for a living but I dont.. I just find a woman I can relate to and learn to love and be loved. We owe a debt to the men and women who change our culture and make treating women with respect and humanity possible. It makes us less violent and less prone to being killed in a war. So I say get over your bromance fetish and deal with being set free

fluxquanta 12y ago
It's attitudes like those you've presented here that play a big role in the withdrawal from society a lot of these people (myself included) face. >If a man is not having sex with a woman.. its because he wants to have sex with men.. If I have a choice between attempting to deal with women who have no interest in me (or a vain interest) with potential destructive consequences to my quality of life, or choosing instead to just say "fuck it" and withdraw to my comfortable job and pornography, I'm going to (and have for years) pick the latter. That doesn't make me "gay", it makes me unwilling to take an inflated risk for little reward. A truly equal relationship is appealing to me, as it would be to others, but that is harder and harder to find. But you keep doing you. Flaunt your alpha male superiority in our faces. We frankly don't care, because that's not a system we want to be part of if we can help it.
- gharial 12y ago
  You're not "facing withdrawal", though. You are choosing to withdrawal due to what reads like an inability to handle day to day situations. I certainly don't think forgoing relationships implies anything about someone's sexuality, but your attitude certainly does come off as immature. We all deal with people having superficial interests (or disinterest) in us on a near daily basis. Platonic and otherwise. To say "fuck it, I'm out" for your own reasons is one thing, but to blame society/modern women or act like well adjusted people drove your hand is really juvenile. It's not a matter of "alpha male superiority" - which, again, gives a very frightening look at your perspective.

pmoriarty 12y ago

One can have a perfectly fulfilling life without a partner, and lack of a partner doesn't mean your life is "empty". People in relationships aren't necessarily happier or more fulfilled than others. There are plenty of relationships that are dysfunctionnal while they last and miserable when they end. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to notice that, or blame feminism to opt out of it.

JoeAltmaier 12y ago
I'd like to see some references for that claim. Far as I know, most measures of quality of life improve with a partner. Even blood pressure for heavens sake. I suspect 'sour grapes' at work here.
- fluxquanta 12y ago
  >I'd like to see some references for that claim. Far as I know, most measures of quality of life improve with a partner. You can tell you're on Hacker News when someone asks for verifiable sources for things like feelings, hah.

rainmaking 12y ago

Okay, so those men who will only accept a woman's company if she is subordinate are having a harder time to find a willing partner. What's wrong with that?

eyeJam 12y ago
Apparently there's enough wrong with that to justify a 2716 word screed (and that's just part 1!!!)
- rainmaking 12y ago
  I can write part 2 in Perl. print "whine"x2716
zo1 12y ago
That's a completely false misrepresentation of what the article is talking about. To boil it all down to "men can't find willing partners if 'she' isn't subordinate to them" is quite frankly, very dishonest. I'm disappointed if you didn't actually read the article before commenting on it the way you did. But I would be quite a bit less appalled at that option, than the one of you having actually read the article, and still interpreted the way it seems you did from your post.
- rainmaking 12y ago
  If it's a false misrepresentation, that would make it a true representation, no? Regardless, be appalled, I read it and all I heard was an obsolete species of man whining that it sucks to be a dinosaur.

magikid 12y ago

This is a parody article, right?

eyeJam 12y ago
He even trotted out that worn-out trope that woman use rape allegations as a tool against men. That argument should be taken out behind the barn and shot. Its old and it don't hunt no mo'. I was really hoping for some thought-provoking counterpoints to feminism, but sadly there were none to be found. Just some anecdotal whinging and a couple quotes from the Ann Coulter of feminism.
- zo1 12y ago
  Just calling something "a worn-out trope" does not make it false, or any less serious. It needs to be studied, verified, and denied if that is the case. But until then, there have been numerous studies with wildly differing findings. Everywhere for 1.5-2% all the way up to 90%. Even if it's just 1.5-2%, that is no laughing matter, or one to be dismissed as as old, or "shot". Many studies regarding false-rape accusations are linked to from the wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape

mydpy 12y ago

Thank you for posting this. It was a fascinating read.

Tyguy7 12y ago

My feelings are very similar to the author of this article.

mcv 12y ago

What a horrid piece of crap that article is. I feel dirty just trying to read it. At its core, it complains that men don't and can't know "the rules", and yet it complains about the existence of (unfortunately but clearly necessary) classes that teach them those rules (consent). The article even explicitly doesn't like that you need consent at all. At that point I really don't know what to say anymore. This article is coming from a really toxic attitude about women and sex. In any case, I think that whatever problems there are, are mainly caused by extreme gender segregation. The more culture treats men and women as totally different species, the more misunderstanding and lack of respect there's going to be. More egalitarian societies don't have this problem.