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I'm a Mozilla and Firefox fan, running Aurora on my desktop, tablet, mobile. Love the project and it's the best browser out there for me. That said.. As far as

I'm a Mozilla and Firefox fan, running Aurora on my desktop, tablet, mobile. Love the project and it's the best browser out there for me. That said.. As far as I understand the 'real meat', the engine, is now webkit. Which defeats the process for me. The UI was always what Firefox was lacking in and even the very latest design decisions are - well - not quite my cup of tea at least and potentially questionable. I would like to understand what Mozilla gains here (if this is mostly a 'skin' around webkit/a web view control) and why iOS users would install it (I'm on Android - dipping my toes into FirefoxOS every couple of weeks). Edit: Thanks for reminding me of Sync as a great use case for a Firefox browser, even if it's using a different engine.

kevingadd 12y ago
Firefox sync and some of the other bells and whistles are nice. Since I use Firefox on all my devices right now, and lean heavily on sync, having a 'Firefox' browser on iOS would be pleasant just for that, even if it's still running WebKit under the hood to satisfy Apple.
k-mcgrady 12y ago
>> "I would like to understand what Mozilla gains here (if this is mostly a 'skin' around webkit/a web view control) and why iOS users would install it (I'm on Android - dipping my toes into FirefoxOS every couple of weeks)." On iOS you use WebKit or you don't make a browser. They don't have a choice. As for why you would install it, probably sync. If you use Firefox on desktop presumably you can now access your bookmarks, history etc on iOS.
- JohnTHaller 12y ago
  On iOS you don't make a browser. Period. You get to make a skin for Safari. That's all.
  - gress 12y ago
    False. You can build any UI you want, as well as any feature you like. The restriction is that you must use WebKit as the rendering engine for content that contains JavaScript.
    - hnriot 12y ago
      an utterly pointless distinction, since a "rendering engine for content that contains JavaScript" is a browser. so like the guy before you said, on iOS you don't build a browser, you build a skin.
    - JohnTHaller 12y ago
      > the rendering engine for content that contains JavaScript Right. So, a browser. You just proved my point. Apple allows exactly one browser on iOS. Theirs.
    - bad_user 12y ago
      It's not only WebKit, but also the Javascript engine and to make matters worse, on iOS last time I checked the web view that you could use in apps wasn't using the same Javascript engine that Safari was using, which means that an alternative browser is slower than Safari by default. From what I've been hearing, lately developers can use the same engine as Safari inside those web views, but the functionality is still buggy. And this matters, because the main features that browsers compete on is speed and new features (in HTML5 and Javascript). This is what made people switch to Chrome, making it gain a whooping 40% (or is it 50%) in market share. This is also what made Firefox gain market share from IExplorer. And if your browser is slower than the default one, then you cannot compete with that default. If your browser cannot be a platform (for add-ons or apps, like what Firefox is doing on Android), then you cannot compete with the default. Chrome on iOS is only a shadow of what it is on the desktop. And Firefox on Android is the only one that allows me to use useful add-ons, such as AdBlock Plus, HTTPS Everywhere and LastPass. Do you know how awesome that is? And this doesn't work on iOS (i.e. having add-ons) because of Apple's restrictions. And yes, I'm even rooting for Gekko (instead of WebKit), because it is Firefox that brought us Asm.js [1], I even bought the Humble Mozilla Bundle [2] and they made everybody optimize for it, including Microsoft. And now they are working on SIMD.js as well [3]. I received an iPhone 6 as a gift 3 weeks ago and I sold it - yes it's nice, but it doesn't run Firefox and apparently Apple kicked VLC out of the app store as well. And personally I couldn't picture myself living with such restrictions so I sold it - now I'm waiting for my Nexus 6 to arrive :-) [1] http://asmjs.org/ http://asmjs.org/ [2] https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/10/14/play-awesome-indie-games-directly-in-firefox-including-the-award-winning-ftl/ https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/10/14/play-awesome-indie-... [3] https://hacks.mozilla.org/2014/10/introducing-simd-js/ https://hacks.mozilla.org/2014/10/introducing-simd-js/
  - k-mcgrady 12y ago
    Quite sure that's what I said... However I guess it all depends on your definition of 'browser'. Is it the rendering engine or the UI+features. I think for most people it's the latter. Even for me it's the latter actually. Most rendering engines are good enough now that the differentiation of done through features like syncing of bookmarks and history, auto generation of secure passwords, autofill of address/credit cards etc.
- pjc50 12y ago
  On iOS you use WebKit or you don't make a browser Remember the days when software choice was a thing, and Microsoft were condemned for merely including a browser with the OS, not banning all software competition? Maybe in about a decade the competition authorities will wake up to this.
Cthulhu_ 12y ago
There's also the marketing reasons, of course - being present on all major operating systems (and iOS / Android are probably bigger than desktop OSes nowadays in terms of users) is a definite boost. You know, like placing your brand in movies.
pm90 12y ago
Firefox is still a non-corporaty project. I mean, I know they take money from Google, and now Yahoo, and stuff. But the point is that they simply want to make the web a better place, rather than make it a better place for Google users or Apple users and so on. Also, I don't know how this works, but I'm guessing that some of the revenue they make goes towards supporting the Mozilla Foundation? These guys put out a lot of really awesome stuff, especially evangelizing web programming in impoverished communities in India and such. Well, I don't mean to appeal to charity. But its just one of the results of this project and experiment. At my last job, we used their open source JS library for handling video content to make a really awesome training application. Seeing as how it has been so useful, just yesterday I set up a recurring donation of $10/month. I figured, well, I pay that much for Netflix anyways, and use Firefox so heavily. So, it made perfect sense to show my support this way.
- Yoric 12y ago
  On behalf of Firefox developers everywhere, thank you very much :)

kevingadd 12y ago

Firefox sync and some of the other bells and whistles are nice. Since I use Firefox on all my devices right now, and lean heavily on sync, having a 'Firefox' browser on iOS would be pleasant just for that, even if it's still running WebKit under the hood to satisfy Apple.

k-mcgrady 12y ago

>> "I would like to understand what Mozilla gains here (if this is mostly a 'skin' around webkit/a web view control) and why iOS users would install it (I'm on Android - dipping my toes into FirefoxOS every couple of weeks)." On iOS you use WebKit or you don't make a browser. They don't have a choice. As for why you would install it, probably sync. If you use Firefox on desktop presumably you can now access your bookmarks, history etc on iOS.

JohnTHaller 12y ago
On iOS you don't make a browser. Period. You get to make a skin for Safari. That's all.
- gress 12y ago
  False. You can build any UI you want, as well as any feature you like. The restriction is that you must use WebKit as the rendering engine for content that contains JavaScript.
  - hnriot 12y ago
    an utterly pointless distinction, since a "rendering engine for content that contains JavaScript" is a browser. so like the guy before you said, on iOS you don't build a browser, you build a skin.
  - JohnTHaller 12y ago
    > the rendering engine for content that contains JavaScript Right. So, a browser. You just proved my point. Apple allows exactly one browser on iOS. Theirs.
  - bad_user 12y ago
    It's not only WebKit, but also the Javascript engine and to make matters worse, on iOS last time I checked the web view that you could use in apps wasn't using the same Javascript engine that Safari was using, which means that an alternative browser is slower than Safari by default. From what I've been hearing, lately developers can use the same engine as Safari inside those web views, but the functionality is still buggy. And this matters, because the main features that browsers compete on is speed and new features (in HTML5 and Javascript). This is what made people switch to Chrome, making it gain a whooping 40% (or is it 50%) in market share. This is also what made Firefox gain market share from IExplorer. And if your browser is slower than the default one, then you cannot compete with that default. If your browser cannot be a platform (for add-ons or apps, like what Firefox is doing on Android), then you cannot compete with the default. Chrome on iOS is only a shadow of what it is on the desktop. And Firefox on Android is the only one that allows me to use useful add-ons, such as AdBlock Plus, HTTPS Everywhere and LastPass. Do you know how awesome that is? And this doesn't work on iOS (i.e. having add-ons) because of Apple's restrictions. And yes, I'm even rooting for Gekko (instead of WebKit), because it is Firefox that brought us Asm.js [1], I even bought the Humble Mozilla Bundle [2] and they made everybody optimize for it, including Microsoft. And now they are working on SIMD.js as well [3]. I received an iPhone 6 as a gift 3 weeks ago and I sold it - yes it's nice, but it doesn't run Firefox and apparently Apple kicked VLC out of the app store as well. And personally I couldn't picture myself living with such restrictions so I sold it - now I'm waiting for my Nexus 6 to arrive :-) [1] http://asmjs.org/ http://asmjs.org/ [2] https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/10/14/play-awesome-indie-games-directly-in-firefox-including-the-award-winning-ftl/ https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/10/14/play-awesome-indie-... [3] https://hacks.mozilla.org/2014/10/introducing-simd-js/ https://hacks.mozilla.org/2014/10/introducing-simd-js/
- k-mcgrady 12y ago
  Quite sure that's what I said... However I guess it all depends on your definition of 'browser'. Is it the rendering engine or the UI+features. I think for most people it's the latter. Even for me it's the latter actually. Most rendering engines are good enough now that the differentiation of done through features like syncing of bookmarks and history, auto generation of secure passwords, autofill of address/credit cards etc.
pjc50 12y ago
On iOS you use WebKit or you don't make a browser Remember the days when software choice was a thing, and Microsoft were condemned for merely including a browser with the OS, not banning all software competition? Maybe in about a decade the competition authorities will wake up to this.

Cthulhu_ 12y ago

There's also the marketing reasons, of course - being present on all major operating systems (and iOS / Android are probably bigger than desktop OSes nowadays in terms of users) is a definite boost. You know, like placing your brand in movies.

pm90 12y ago

Firefox is still a non-corporaty project. I mean, I know they take money from Google, and now Yahoo, and stuff. But the point is that they simply want to make the web a better place, rather than make it a better place for Google users or Apple users and so on. Also, I don't know how this works, but I'm guessing that some of the revenue they make goes towards supporting the Mozilla Foundation? These guys put out a lot of really awesome stuff, especially evangelizing web programming in impoverished communities in India and such. Well, I don't mean to appeal to charity. But its just one of the results of this project and experiment. At my last job, we used their open source JS library for handling video content to make a really awesome training application. Seeing as how it has been so useful, just yesterday I set up a recurring donation of $10/month. I figured, well, I pay that much for Netflix anyways, and use Firefox so heavily. So, it made perfect sense to show my support this way.

Yoric 12y ago
On behalf of Firefox developers everywhere, thank you very much :)