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I understand why Uber's culture might be less popular with drivers and I certainly wish they seemed less smarmy - to echo another commenter - but this descripti

I understand why Uber's culture might be less popular with drivers and I certainly wish they seemed less smarmy - to echo another commenter - but this description totally underscores why I prefer Uber to Lyft as a customer. Nothing against Lyft per se (though getting hit on by drivers twice, including a text after the fact, my last trip to SF didn't help), but the "we're all friends" culture sounds ok on paper but when I'm paying for car service, maybe I'm just a bitch, but I don't want to be your friend. I get there is a difference between liveries and ride sharing in some cities, I do. But I live in New York. I don't want to sit in the front. I don't want to bump your fist. I don't always want to talk (though I've maintained a diary of sorts of many of my favorite Uber driver conversations). I'k primarily using the app because I need a car and couldn't get a taxi. Having a warm and fuzzy relationship is fine, but most of the time I'm trying to do work on my laptop or iPad. As a result, I'm more incline to use the service that treats it as a business than a lark. But I do appreciate that Lyft drivers feel more appreciated there. That's important. I hope Lyft continues to treat it's drivers well.

username223 12y ago
So you totes want a professional driver? Then pay for one, MovieFemaleCW. Lyft sounds creepy, but if you want a cab, don't try to do it on the cheap by paying someone to "carpool."
- krschultz 12y ago
  Example #6,231 of how a woman on HN randomly gets harassed for absolutely nothing other than the fact that their username indicates they are female.
  - username223 12y ago
    > Example #6,231 of how a woman on HN randomly gets harassed for absolutely nothing other than the fact that their username indicates they are female. Or example #?,??? (insert random number) of gender nonsense on HN. I'm not trying to "harass a woman." I don't care about sex, gender, or what-not. Just pay your cabbies fairly, and don't lie about the fact that they're cabbies.
    - zorpner 12y ago
      What was the specific reason that you repeated their username back to them in your comment with words and capitalization modified?
      - username223 12y ago
        > What was the specific reason that you repeated their username back to them in your comment with words and capitalization modified? Because his/her/its username was designed to call attention to being female and involved with movies. If I chose the username "whitenerdyguy" (which I am), I would expect some flack about it.
pbreit 12y ago
Feel free to hop in back and skip the fist bump. Simple way to indicate that you're just looking for transport.
- mech4bg 12y ago
  Lyft tells you to do it though: https://www.lyft.com/ https://www.lyft.com/ "Hop in the front seat and greet your driver with a friendly fistbump" It creates an expectation - and it feels like you're not really getting into the spirit of things if you're not playing along. It's the whole reason I haven't tried Lyft yet too, much like other people in this thread.
  - LunaSea 12y ago
    Then again it's a paid service not kindergarten.
  - ifelsethen 12y ago
    well, they also say things like this, to be fair: http://view.lyftmail.com/?j=fe5012797d6400747012&m=fe6915707166047a7d14&ls=fdf81172716c0d7d7d147375&utm_campaign=69804956 http://view.lyftmail.com/?j=fe5012797d6400747012&m=fe6915707...
    - gaadd33 12y ago
      Just an FYI, your email and name are available via links off of that url.
    - mech4bg 12y ago
      Not on their front page. It sounds silly, but I would happily use Lyft if they dropped the pretense of being your friend. I love using Uber because if I want to engage I can, if I don't, I can just chill out. They don't dictate or encourage one way or another.
      - pbreit 12y ago
        Same with Lyft. But the friendliness is there if you want it (much more so than Uber in my experience). If Lyft dropped the friendliness and just tried to be Uber it would go out of business.
crazypyro 12y ago
To be fair, you are basically describing a taxi service or professional driving service, word for word. The friendly, talkative atmosphere is exactly what Lyft is marketing towards. In fact, a comment directly below yours talks about how great the atmosphere is for them and how it feels like a true ride sharing service between friends. One couldn't even argue the ride sharing between friends when you actively don't want to communicate with your driver....
- ryanhuff 12y ago
  I have never taken an Uber ride, but maybe the reason why they are seen as #1 is that they are not trying to invent some new kind of relationship with riders. I did hear recently that Lyft was moving away from the fist-bump and mustache.
- mmagin 12y ago
  It may be an introvert thing, but I find this similar to how I vastly prefer the self-checkout machines at the supermarket. I don't really want to expend the finite emotional energy I have on being fake-social with people I don't even know while I'm making a business transaction. Although apparently Lyft is now available where I live, it's never even had the inclination to try their service (as a passenger) because I find actually meeting new people and having open-ended conversations with them quite exhausting and stressful. At least with UberX I am assured we can just be polite to each other and not say much.
  - elwell 12y ago
    There's a Bible proverb somewhere that says, "He who refreshes others will himself be refreshed." Sometimes it can seem like we only have a finite amount of emotional energy, but keep in mind the ways to refresh that store.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
- prawn 12y ago
slingerofwheat 12y ago
Most of us are not outrageously attractive or desirable that a Lyft driver wants to be our friends or hit on us or anything like that. Thanks for rubbing that in, btw. My life, well, is sad. The only person who asks me how my day is going is my Lyft driver. Maybe I'm just not a normal person.
nostromo 12y ago
This is one of my least favorite things about American culture. Not just in cabs, but in most service situations. I've literally stopped going to coffee shops that became too chatty. Sometimes I just want a coffee, not a chat about the weekend and the weather and the local sports team. I much prefer the French service style: efficient, cordial, but out of your way.
- vmarsy 12y ago
  In average French restaurants/coffee shops, since waiters aren't tipped, they don't care so much about the efficient part, sometimes even the cordial part. They are out of your way though. In America if a waiter is too chatty you can politely ask for more quiet time, they are chatty because they want a good tip. Asking a French waiter to be less out of your way isn't as easy
  - madeofpalk 12y ago
    > since waiters aren't tipped, they don't care so much about the efficient part, sometimes even the cordial part. I would say this could be due more to other factors apart from tipping. I don't find hospitality customer service any ruder in Australia and we're not a tipping country.
    - mech4bg 12y ago
      It's complicated wrt Australia vs America hospitality customer service - I do tend to find overall that you get better service in the US and way more emphasis on checking whether things are going well and making sure you're having a good experience. That said, I am often surprised how bad service can be in the US given the whole emphasis on tipping - I guess part of it is very few people would actually not tip on bad service (I feel awful tipping less than 15%, regardless of how bad the service was). In general though, customer service seems to be superior in the US than in Australia from my experience.
      - redacted 12y ago
zem 12y ago
i don't particularly want to do any of that (i'd far rather sit in the back and not talk), but i put up with it for the pleasure of using a service where the drivers feel treated well. uber seems to have imbibed the toxic "customer is always right" mentality[0] that often gets confused with actual professionalism. [0] except when it comes to customers versus uber, of course
Evolved 12y ago
I agree. I like Lyft but what the author feels is sterile and walled off about Uber appears to me as organization and professionalism. Likewise, what the author applauds about Lyft as being unique and perhaps more engaging appears to me as being a little too lax and carefree. If my life is in your hands via you driving then I'd better see you as a professional who takes their job seriously since I don't know you.
qq66 12y ago
Lyft created that image because they thought they would need some cover story about "friends driving friends" in order to violate taxi licensing laws without repercussions. Uber demonstrated that such a cover story was unnecessary.
- differentView 12y ago
  Source? Or is this conjecture on your part?
- Evolved 12y ago
  Unless Lyft didn't charge for rides then regardless of how they describe it, fundamentally it is still a pay-per-ride service (i.e. taxi) and still subject to the taxi industry regulations (which I don't necessarily agree with but exist nonetheless). I 'm curious if companies like these could legally operate by not charging by time or distance but instead operating as a private club wherein someone purchases a membership that grants them free time or mileage (up to a certain limit) or some system based on pricing sort of like how NYC MetroCards are set up).
  - qq66 12y ago
    They didn't "charge" for rides for a long time. They called them "donations" and you were perfectly entitled not to "donate" anything. Of course the driver would give you a bad rating if you "donated" anything less than the suggested "donation."
- jcampbell1 12y ago
  Lyft even called the fares "donations" until roughly 6 months ago.
kelnos 12y ago
... but the "we're all friends" culture sounds ok on paper but when I'm paying for car service, maybe I'm just a bitch, but I don't want to be your friend. I prefer Uber for at least this reason. I don't want to chat or make a friend; I just want to get from point A to B and be left alone. As I was reading the article, though, I realized that if I were a driver, I'd prefer to drive for Lyft. I'm not a particularly "professional" person, and I appreciate Lyft's "come as you are" driver culture... at least from the perspective as a potential driver. As a rider I'd still prefer the efficient and non-social Uber.
rahimnathwani 12y ago
Did you choose to sit in the front or the back of the car? When I get taxis in Beijing, I sit in the front when I'm open to chat, and the back when when I'm not. Most drivers respect this signal. Does the same not work with Lyft? I've only tried Lyft once (in SF). I chose to sit in the front, and had an enjoyable conversation with the driver.
ghaff 12y ago
Yep. I don't have a lot of occasion to take taxis/Uber but I do take a car service to the airport fairly frequently. Most of the time I'm fine with a few minutes of chit chat about what the weather has been like while I've been away or the successes/tribulations of whatever sports team, or what traffic nightmare is going on at the moment--but, at that point, I'm generally good with being driven to my destination without feeling the obligation to make further polite conversation, listen to talk radio, or whatever.
pnathan 12y ago
I vastly appreciate Lyft more as a rider. They feel more human. Yes, many drivers drive for both Uber and Lyft. Further, Lyft pays the drivers better.
pbreit 12y ago
There's not problem whatsoever sitting in the back seat without a fist bump or chatting. But I think Lyft's friendlier brand promise could ultimately keep it in the game.

username223 12y ago

So you totes want a professional driver? Then pay for one, MovieFemaleCW. Lyft sounds creepy, but if you want a cab, don't try to do it on the cheap by paying someone to "carpool."

krschultz 12y ago
Example #6,231 of how a woman on HN randomly gets harassed for absolutely nothing other than the fact that their username indicates they are female.
- username223 12y ago
  > Example #6,231 of how a woman on HN randomly gets harassed for absolutely nothing other than the fact that their username indicates they are female. Or example #?,??? (insert random number) of gender nonsense on HN. I'm not trying to "harass a woman." I don't care about sex, gender, or what-not. Just pay your cabbies fairly, and don't lie about the fact that they're cabbies.
  - zorpner 12y ago
    What was the specific reason that you repeated their username back to them in your comment with words and capitalization modified?
    - username223 12y ago
      > What was the specific reason that you repeated their username back to them in your comment with words and capitalization modified? Because his/her/its username was designed to call attention to being female and involved with movies. If I chose the username "whitenerdyguy" (which I am), I would expect some flack about it.

pbreit 12y ago

Feel free to hop in back and skip the fist bump. Simple way to indicate that you're just looking for transport.

mech4bg 12y ago
Lyft tells you to do it though: https://www.lyft.com/ https://www.lyft.com/ "Hop in the front seat and greet your driver with a friendly fistbump" It creates an expectation - and it feels like you're not really getting into the spirit of things if you're not playing along. It's the whole reason I haven't tried Lyft yet too, much like other people in this thread.
- LunaSea 12y ago
  Then again it's a paid service not kindergarten.
- ifelsethen 12y ago
  well, they also say things like this, to be fair: http://view.lyftmail.com/?j=fe5012797d6400747012&m=fe6915707166047a7d14&ls=fdf81172716c0d7d7d147375&utm_campaign=69804956 http://view.lyftmail.com/?j=fe5012797d6400747012&m=fe6915707...
  - gaadd33 12y ago
    Just an FYI, your email and name are available via links off of that url.
  - mech4bg 12y ago
    Not on their front page. It sounds silly, but I would happily use Lyft if they dropped the pretense of being your friend. I love using Uber because if I want to engage I can, if I don't, I can just chill out. They don't dictate or encourage one way or another.
    - pbreit 12y ago
      Same with Lyft. But the friendliness is there if you want it (much more so than Uber in my experience). If Lyft dropped the friendliness and just tried to be Uber it would go out of business.

crazypyro 12y ago

To be fair, you are basically describing a taxi service or professional driving service, word for word. The friendly, talkative atmosphere is exactly what Lyft is marketing towards. In fact, a comment directly below yours talks about how great the atmosphere is for them and how it feels like a true ride sharing service between friends. One couldn't even argue the ride sharing between friends when you actively don't want to communicate with your driver....

ryanhuff 12y ago
I have never taken an Uber ride, but maybe the reason why they are seen as #1 is that they are not trying to invent some new kind of relationship with riders. I did hear recently that Lyft was moving away from the fist-bump and mustache.
mmagin 12y ago
It may be an introvert thing, but I find this similar to how I vastly prefer the self-checkout machines at the supermarket. I don't really want to expend the finite emotional energy I have on being fake-social with people I don't even know while I'm making a business transaction. Although apparently Lyft is now available where I live, it's never even had the inclination to try their service (as a passenger) because I find actually meeting new people and having open-ended conversations with them quite exhausting and stressful. At least with UberX I am assured we can just be polite to each other and not say much.
- elwell 12y ago
  There's a Bible proverb somewhere that says, "He who refreshes others will himself be refreshed." Sometimes it can seem like we only have a finite amount of emotional energy, but keep in mind the ways to refresh that store.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
prawn 12y ago

slingerofwheat 12y ago

Most of us are not outrageously attractive or desirable that a Lyft driver wants to be our friends or hit on us or anything like that. Thanks for rubbing that in, btw. My life, well, is sad. The only person who asks me how my day is going is my Lyft driver. Maybe I'm just not a normal person.

nostromo 12y ago

This is one of my least favorite things about American culture. Not just in cabs, but in most service situations. I've literally stopped going to coffee shops that became too chatty. Sometimes I just want a coffee, not a chat about the weekend and the weather and the local sports team. I much prefer the French service style: efficient, cordial, but out of your way.

vmarsy 12y ago
In average French restaurants/coffee shops, since waiters aren't tipped, they don't care so much about the efficient part, sometimes even the cordial part. They are out of your way though. In America if a waiter is too chatty you can politely ask for more quiet time, they are chatty because they want a good tip. Asking a French waiter to be less out of your way isn't as easy
- madeofpalk 12y ago
  > since waiters aren't tipped, they don't care so much about the efficient part, sometimes even the cordial part. I would say this could be due more to other factors apart from tipping. I don't find hospitality customer service any ruder in Australia and we're not a tipping country.
  - mech4bg 12y ago
    It's complicated wrt Australia vs America hospitality customer service - I do tend to find overall that you get better service in the US and way more emphasis on checking whether things are going well and making sure you're having a good experience. That said, I am often surprised how bad service can be in the US given the whole emphasis on tipping - I guess part of it is very few people would actually not tip on bad service (I feel awful tipping less than 15%, regardless of how bad the service was). In general though, customer service seems to be superior in the US than in Australia from my experience.
    - redacted 12y ago

zem 12y ago

i don't particularly want to do any of that (i'd far rather sit in the back and not talk), but i put up with it for the pleasure of using a service where the drivers feel treated well. uber seems to have imbibed the toxic "customer is always right" mentality[0] that often gets confused with actual professionalism. [0] except when it comes to customers versus uber, of course

Evolved 12y ago

I agree. I like Lyft but what the author feels is sterile and walled off about Uber appears to me as organization and professionalism. Likewise, what the author applauds about Lyft as being unique and perhaps more engaging appears to me as being a little too lax and carefree. If my life is in your hands via you driving then I'd better see you as a professional who takes their job seriously since I don't know you.

qq66 12y ago

Lyft created that image because they thought they would need some cover story about "friends driving friends" in order to violate taxi licensing laws without repercussions. Uber demonstrated that such a cover story was unnecessary.

differentView 12y ago
Source? Or is this conjecture on your part?
Evolved 12y ago
Unless Lyft didn't charge for rides then regardless of how they describe it, fundamentally it is still a pay-per-ride service (i.e. taxi) and still subject to the taxi industry regulations (which I don't necessarily agree with but exist nonetheless). I 'm curious if companies like these could legally operate by not charging by time or distance but instead operating as a private club wherein someone purchases a membership that grants them free time or mileage (up to a certain limit) or some system based on pricing sort of like how NYC MetroCards are set up).
- qq66 12y ago
  They didn't "charge" for rides for a long time. They called them "donations" and you were perfectly entitled not to "donate" anything. Of course the driver would give you a bad rating if you "donated" anything less than the suggested "donation."
jcampbell1 12y ago
Lyft even called the fares "donations" until roughly 6 months ago.

kelnos 12y ago

... but the "we're all friends" culture sounds ok on paper but when I'm paying for car service, maybe I'm just a bitch, but I don't want to be your friend. I prefer Uber for at least this reason. I don't want to chat or make a friend; I just want to get from point A to B and be left alone. As I was reading the article, though, I realized that if I were a driver, I'd prefer to drive for Lyft. I'm not a particularly "professional" person, and I appreciate Lyft's "come as you are" driver culture... at least from the perspective as a potential driver. As a rider I'd still prefer the efficient and non-social Uber.

rahimnathwani 12y ago

Did you choose to sit in the front or the back of the car? When I get taxis in Beijing, I sit in the front when I'm open to chat, and the back when when I'm not. Most drivers respect this signal. Does the same not work with Lyft? I've only tried Lyft once (in SF). I chose to sit in the front, and had an enjoyable conversation with the driver.

ghaff 12y ago

Yep. I don't have a lot of occasion to take taxis/Uber but I do take a car service to the airport fairly frequently. Most of the time I'm fine with a few minutes of chit chat about what the weather has been like while I've been away or the successes/tribulations of whatever sports team, or what traffic nightmare is going on at the moment--but, at that point, I'm generally good with being driven to my destination without feeling the obligation to make further polite conversation, listen to talk radio, or whatever.

pnathan 12y ago

I vastly appreciate Lyft more as a rider. They feel more human. Yes, many drivers drive for both Uber and Lyft. Further, Lyft pays the drivers better.

pbreit 12y ago

There's not problem whatsoever sitting in the back seat without a fist bump or chatting. But I think Lyft's friendlier brand promise could ultimately keep it in the game.