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I love that article. In fact, it may be my favorite article ever written (although "What you can't say" is a close second). What I've come to realize though i

I love that article. In fact, it may be my favorite article ever written (although "What you can't say" is a close second). What I've come to realize though is that to a certain extent, it seems futile to try and overcome tying things to our identity. I've often been accused of being overly analytical in everything I do (including things like relationships, which apparently you're not supposed to evaluate using statistics). The problem is that my attempt to catch my own biases kind of drives me crazy in a way. I already have OCD, and all of my layers of meta-analysis toward my own arguments and viewpoints just ends up exhausting me. Add that to the fact that when I get in an "unwinnable" debate (you know the people; the ones who never give an inch) I just end up getting cranky and unhappy. So while I do think this primitive, illogical, emotionally biased soup of a thinking machine we call a "brain" is far from optimal, I'm not sure if it's much better healthwise to attempt to force it into the other extreme.

stinos 12y ago
force it into the other extreme No. Extremes are always bad - except in one case: me making this claim is also sort of an extreme. But the only good one, lol :] For the rest: I think I know what you mean. I used to be self-analytical like that as well. Getting older though I found in the end it just made me unhappy because all this analysis (for me) led to mainly focussing on the bad points and ignoring all the good points. So now I'm easier on myself and instead of constantly trying to fix my whole self in one go I'm trying to do it rather gradually: firstly always try to do good and good only and secondly when I figure I'm not doing good (well, just admitting that and trying to fix it is already a good start and steps beyond what some ever achieve), or being way too biased, or wanting to kick people becasue they are being complete asholes, etc, etc, a short reflection going for example like 'ok, I'm too biased here, that's not so good, but it's also nothing to be ashamed of, just try better next time' or 'ok, the guys opinion clearly differs from yours and is possibly also completely wrong, but that does not mean he's a complete asshole. Better try to educate him instead of trying to kick his ass'. No idea if that makes sense to anyone but after some years of doing this I think I've actually become a better person. And definitely less unhappy. Nonetheless, sometimes I'll still be a complete ass myself mainly in online discussions. Working on it though :]
lizard 12y ago
Identity has many different meanings depending on the context, just look at the Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity How it is being used in pg's Identity, I believe, is referring more to a Self-Concept (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-concept https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-concept), or 'How one views one's self.' On the other, statements like "I've often been accused of being overly analytical" and "I already have OCD" refer more to Self-Knowledge, which the Self-Concept Wikipedia article suggests is distinct. The difference is in how we think about how things relate to ourselves, and is critical to what pg is saying. For example, the article brings up an example in which a thread about programming degenerates into a religious-like war when programmers identify as a "X programmer". By incorporating X into their identity, or Self-Concept, they are saying 'X is part of who I am.' By incorporating X into their Self-Knowledge that would sound more like, 'X is something I know.' The Self-Concept is dangerous because when someone else comes along and says something like "X sucks" the X-Programmer interprets it is "part of who I am sucks" as opposed to "something I know sucks." The latter is easy to dismiss (or discuss), but the former is personal and offensive. pg warns that the more of these ideas we build into our Self-Concept the more exposed we become. By allowing more ideas into our Self-Concept we create new path ways for others to strike at our primitive, illogical, emotionally biased core. And its not that having that primitive core is bad, it's just that 'sophistication, logic, and rationalization' are slow and take a lot of energy. Presumable, that's why we have that primitive core, because people who try to rationalize threats to their well being are beaten, eaten, and humiliated; they can't react fast enough or keep it up long enough. So don't try to hit the other extreme, you'll just wear yourself out. But be careful what you allow into your Self-Concept, because your Self-Concept isn't rational.

stinos 12y ago

force it into the other extreme No. Extremes are always bad - except in one case: me making this claim is also sort of an extreme. But the only good one, lol :] For the rest: I think I know what you mean. I used to be self-analytical like that as well. Getting older though I found in the end it just made me unhappy because all this analysis (for me) led to mainly focussing on the bad points and ignoring all the good points. So now I'm easier on myself and instead of constantly trying to fix my whole self in one go I'm trying to do it rather gradually: firstly always try to do good and good only and secondly when I figure I'm not doing good (well, just admitting that and trying to fix it is already a good start and steps beyond what some ever achieve), or being way too biased, or wanting to kick people becasue they are being complete asholes, etc, etc, a short reflection going for example like 'ok, I'm too biased here, that's not so good, but it's also nothing to be ashamed of, just try better next time' or 'ok, the guys opinion clearly differs from yours and is possibly also completely wrong, but that does not mean he's a complete asshole. Better try to educate him instead of trying to kick his ass'. No idea if that makes sense to anyone but after some years of doing this I think I've actually become a better person. And definitely less unhappy. Nonetheless, sometimes I'll still be a complete ass myself mainly in online discussions. Working on it though :]

lizard 12y ago

Identity has many different meanings depending on the context, just look at the Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity How it is being used in pg's Identity, I believe, is referring more to a Self-Concept (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-concept https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-concept), or 'How one views one's self.' On the other, statements like "I've often been accused of being overly analytical" and "I already have OCD" refer more to Self-Knowledge, which the Self-Concept Wikipedia article suggests is distinct. The difference is in how we think about how things relate to ourselves, and is critical to what pg is saying. For example, the article brings up an example in which a thread about programming degenerates into a religious-like war when programmers identify as a "X programmer". By incorporating X into their identity, or Self-Concept, they are saying 'X is part of who I am.' By incorporating X into their Self-Knowledge that would sound more like, 'X is something I know.' The Self-Concept is dangerous because when someone else comes along and says something like "X sucks" the X-Programmer interprets it is "part of who I am sucks" as opposed to "something I know sucks." The latter is easy to dismiss (or discuss), but the former is personal and offensive. pg warns that the more of these ideas we build into our Self-Concept the more exposed we become. By allowing more ideas into our Self-Concept we create new path ways for others to strike at our primitive, illogical, emotionally biased core. And its not that having that primitive core is bad, it's just that 'sophistication, logic, and rationalization' are slow and take a lot of energy. Presumable, that's why we have that primitive core, because people who try to rationalize threats to their well being are beaten, eaten, and humiliated; they can't react fast enough or keep it up long enough. So don't try to hit the other extreme, you'll just wear yourself out. But be careful what you allow into your Self-Concept, because your Self-Concept isn't rational.