>Sure, the spot price -that is: the wholesale price- for electricity in EU and AU might be negative, but that doesn't mean the end user pays less. Nope, but it

>Sure, the spot price -that is: the wholesale price- for electricity in EU and AU might be negative, but that doesn't mean the end user pays less. Nope, but it's a strong sign that they will do one day in the not too distant future when we have more intelligent grids (and more intelligent electricity consumption systems). We are already starting to see this (e.g. the other day I saw a story about an aluminum smelter matching their production to the electricity spot price in Germany). There are countries with power grids run by monopolistic assholes, often with strong financial interests in coal/gas/oil. Like America. The uptake of renewables in those countries will be much, much slower and they will pay more for electricity in the long run because they will keep the grids configured to operate poorly with renewables. >Also, very little oil is used to generate electricity. Yup, because it's damned expensive. This is why electric cars often end up being cheaper in the long run despite having higher purchasing prices. This is also why solar panels are incredibly popular in Hawaii: their power stations do run on (expensive) oil. >Something I don't understand is why more coal and oil businesses aren't investing more in solar and wind. Typewriter companies didn't invest in computers. Kodak decided not to pursue digital cameras. This is the norm. Large corporations are resistant to change at the best of times. They are ultra-resistant to change when the change will cannibalize an existing, profitable line of business.