5 ms·

I'm not sure this is legal in the US w/r/t FCC. I know the author isn't in the US, but pointing this out for US hackers.

Florin_Andrei 12y ago
> I'm not sure this is legal in the US w/r/t FCC. What is the rationale for not allowing these?
- ne0n 12y ago
  It's not specifically not allowing these devices, it's broadcasting on a restricted frequency without the proper license. The FCC regulates who can broadcast on which frequencies. Getting a ham license can open it up a bit, but there are still regulations to follow.
  - lettergram 12y ago
    I wish they would open up 214-400 THz range. Then instead of charging everyone $99/month for poor cell phone service, we can charge $99/month just for living.
    - triangleman 12y ago
      Infrared?
      - kbaker 12y ago
        I think parent might have meant the Black-body radiation of a human [1], but was off by an order of magnitude... should be 14 um to 7.5 um wavelength = 21.4 THz to 40.0 THz. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black-body_radiation#Human_body_emission http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black-body_radiation#Human_body...
  - bravo22 12y ago
    He is not offering the product for sale. It is experimental and therefore allowed.
    - Johnythree 12y ago
      Actually no. Any experimental device must be covered by the appropriate experimental class license. Think about it. Any dumb CBer could claim that his homebrew Linear is "Experimental".
      - bravo22 12y ago
        That's different. CBers are broadcasting. FCC gives you exemption for up to five units [1]. You are also exempted during development; how else could you even build the thing. FCC of course reserves the right to come in and tell you that your device is messing up the neighborhood and to cut it out. [2][3] Your device can't be used explicitly for the purpose of broadcast or jamming. The experimental license is for those who actually want to broadcast/communicate on those restricted frequencies. [1] http://www.metlabs.com/blog/emc/some-electronic-devices-are-exempt-from-fcc-emc-testing/ http://www.metlabs.com/blog/emc/some-electronic-devices-are-... [2] http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/15.103 http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/15.103 [3] http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/15.29 http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/15.29
        Johnythree 12y ago
        CB'ers are not "Broadcasting". Broadcasting has a specific meaning and it is not permitted under a CB license. And yes, you are exempted for ownership while under development, but your organisation needs a written license or permit, plus you cannot transmit outside a screened room. The Experimental License is for those who wish to Transmit outside a screened room. Note that the O.P. is in Finland, not USA and the licensing details vary with each country. Source: Half a lifetime as a Government Radio Inspector.
        bravo22 12y ago
hwillis 12y ago
It would be kind of grey. He was aiming for 5.8 which is an open band in the US, although his bandwidth was way above the width of that channel. Generally though unless you are actively impeding someone else or, god forbid, you're on government or medical channels, you're pretty okay and you are unlikely to get hunted down. People get nabbed for jamming cell phones and such but if you are using it rarely and not using a massive amount of power, nobody will notice. Good practice is to stick to the open bands: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio_frequency_allocations#ITU_Region_2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio_frequency_allocat... Also, he says he's aiming for a radar band: "The reason I chose to use 5 – 6 GHz band was because there is a band reserved for radars around 5.8 GHz and this range overlaps with 5 GHz WLAN."
- wtallis 12y ago
  Since 5.8GHz wifi devices are required to detect and avoid frequencies actively used by radar systems, it would be pretty straightforward to just use your laptop to check if it's safe to do a hobby radar project in your location. It's really easy to make this a very low-risk project.
- Johnythree 12y ago
  The issue is not Licensing, but Type Approval. Even on the ISM bands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISM_band http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISM_band) any transmitter must still be submitted for Type Approval Testing. The only exception to Type Approval is on the Amateur bands where "homebrew" is permitted (and encouraged). However the Amateur Regs specifically rule out any commercial use. The only way this could legally be operated is in a professional quality screened room, or if the University has an "Experimental" class radio license.
  - hwillis 12y ago
    It's in a legal band for any use, but you are correct, the output power is 300-600 times too high to be unlicensed.

Florin_Andrei 12y ago

> I'm not sure this is legal in the US w/r/t FCC. What is the rationale for not allowing these?

ne0n 12y ago
It's not specifically not allowing these devices, it's broadcasting on a restricted frequency without the proper license. The FCC regulates who can broadcast on which frequencies. Getting a ham license can open it up a bit, but there are still regulations to follow.
- lettergram 12y ago
  I wish they would open up 214-400 THz range. Then instead of charging everyone $99/month for poor cell phone service, we can charge $99/month just for living.
  - triangleman 12y ago
    Infrared?
    - kbaker 12y ago
      I think parent might have meant the Black-body radiation of a human [1], but was off by an order of magnitude... should be 14 um to 7.5 um wavelength = 21.4 THz to 40.0 THz. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black-body_radiation#Human_body_emission http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black-body_radiation#Human_body...
- bravo22 12y ago
  He is not offering the product for sale. It is experimental and therefore allowed.
  - Johnythree 12y ago
    Actually no. Any experimental device must be covered by the appropriate experimental class license. Think about it. Any dumb CBer could claim that his homebrew Linear is "Experimental".
    - bravo22 12y ago
      That's different. CBers are broadcasting. FCC gives you exemption for up to five units [1]. You are also exempted during development; how else could you even build the thing. FCC of course reserves the right to come in and tell you that your device is messing up the neighborhood and to cut it out. [2][3] Your device can't be used explicitly for the purpose of broadcast or jamming. The experimental license is for those who actually want to broadcast/communicate on those restricted frequencies. [1] http://www.metlabs.com/blog/emc/some-electronic-devices-are-exempt-from-fcc-emc-testing/ http://www.metlabs.com/blog/emc/some-electronic-devices-are-... [2] http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/15.103 http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/15.103 [3] http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/15.29 http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/47/15.29
      - Johnythree 12y ago
        CB'ers are not "Broadcasting". Broadcasting has a specific meaning and it is not permitted under a CB license. And yes, you are exempted for ownership while under development, but your organisation needs a written license or permit, plus you cannot transmit outside a screened room. The Experimental License is for those who wish to Transmit outside a screened room. Note that the O.P. is in Finland, not USA and the licensing details vary with each country. Source: Half a lifetime as a Government Radio Inspector.
        bravo22 12y ago

hwillis 12y ago

It would be kind of grey. He was aiming for 5.8 which is an open band in the US, although his bandwidth was way above the width of that channel. Generally though unless you are actively impeding someone else or, god forbid, you're on government or medical channels, you're pretty okay and you are unlikely to get hunted down. People get nabbed for jamming cell phones and such but if you are using it rarely and not using a massive amount of power, nobody will notice. Good practice is to stick to the open bands: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio_frequency_allocations#ITU_Region_2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio_frequency_allocat... Also, he says he's aiming for a radar band: "The reason I chose to use 5 – 6 GHz band was because there is a band reserved for radars around 5.8 GHz and this range overlaps with 5 GHz WLAN."

wtallis 12y ago
Since 5.8GHz wifi devices are required to detect and avoid frequencies actively used by radar systems, it would be pretty straightforward to just use your laptop to check if it's safe to do a hobby radar project in your location. It's really easy to make this a very low-risk project.
Johnythree 12y ago
The issue is not Licensing, but Type Approval. Even on the ISM bands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISM_band http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISM_band) any transmitter must still be submitted for Type Approval Testing. The only exception to Type Approval is on the Amateur bands where "homebrew" is permitted (and encouraged). However the Amateur Regs specifically rule out any commercial use. The only way this could legally be operated is in a professional quality screened room, or if the University has an "Experimental" class radio license.
- hwillis 12y ago
  It's in a legal band for any use, but you are correct, the output power is 300-600 times too high to be unlicensed.