4 ms·

There are large classes of web applications which can not work without javascript. Period. Nobody is saying everything needs to be that way. But some things do

by boucher 17y ago

There are large classes of web applications which can not work without javascript. Period. Nobody is saying everything needs to be that way. But some things do. This is an attempt to make those things work better with search engines.

coderdude 17y ago
>>This is an attempt to make those things work better with search engines. Can you give an example of a Web application, which relies on Javascript to function, which also has content that even _should_ be indexed but is hiding behind Ajax? Does Google need to index Backpack or something?
- boucher 17y ago
  Well, that's where it gets tricky. Separating the content from the application usually isn't easy. 280 Slides the application doesn't need to be indexed. They don't need to know where the New button is. They don't need to know where the scrollers are. But shared presentations do need to be indexed. Fortunately, it's not all that difficult to construct the content in such a way that it can be indexed. We give out unique URLs for presentations which aren't # delimited, so we could actually serve the text content alongside the viewable presentation. We don't currently, but it would be a relatively easy change.
  - coderdude 17y ago
    Thanks, I was looking for clarification that what Google is really after is not the innards of the Web applications so much as the content that can be considered "standalonable."
qeorge 17y ago
Selling web applications that don't work without Javascript is legally dangerous (discriminates against disabled users). There's a lot more to accessibility than making sure your site works without Javascript, but if you're missing this piece its somewhat of a moot point. There's never been a case that's gone to verdict on the matter, so its still somewhat of a gray area. But the reason they don't go to verdict is because the offending company has always agreed to a large cash settlement. Target's $6MM settlement with the Federation for the Blind is the most recent case.[1] There's plenty of large websites that drop the ball here (e.g., Reddit), but that doesn't mean its safe to do so. Ignore accessibility at your own risk. [1]http://www.webstandards.org/2008/08/28/what-the-target-settlement-should-mean-to-you/ http://www.webstandards.org/2008/08/28/what-the-target-settl...
- boucher 17y ago
  If you honestly believe that people shouldn't make applications that don't work without JavaScript, then you are without question saying that there are applications which should not be built on the web. I respect that opinion, but I don't agree with it.
- ique 17y ago
  Why can't blind people have browsers with javascript? I've never thought about it, but text to speech and the like should not require that the browser does not have javascript?
- kls 17y ago
  As a person with disabilities (100% color blindness) I have to call foul on this one. One of the most out of the box solutions for A11Y is build into the Dojo toolkit, a JavaScript framework. By the flip of a style class an entire application can be adapted to a person with a specific disability. Ajax done correctly makes targeting persons with disabilities simpler not more complex. http://www.dojotoolkit.org/developer/a11yStatement http://www.dojotoolkit.org/developer/a11yStatement

by boucher 17y ago

coderdude 17y ago

>>This is an attempt to make those things work better with search engines. Can you give an example of a Web application, which relies on Javascript to function, which also has content that even _should_ be indexed but is hiding behind Ajax? Does Google need to index Backpack or something?

boucher 17y ago
Well, that's where it gets tricky. Separating the content from the application usually isn't easy. 280 Slides the application doesn't need to be indexed. They don't need to know where the New button is. They don't need to know where the scrollers are. But shared presentations do need to be indexed. Fortunately, it's not all that difficult to construct the content in such a way that it can be indexed. We give out unique URLs for presentations which aren't # delimited, so we could actually serve the text content alongside the viewable presentation. We don't currently, but it would be a relatively easy change.
- coderdude 17y ago
  Thanks, I was looking for clarification that what Google is really after is not the innards of the Web applications so much as the content that can be considered "standalonable."

qeorge 17y ago

Selling web applications that don't work without Javascript is legally dangerous (discriminates against disabled users). There's a lot more to accessibility than making sure your site works without Javascript, but if you're missing this piece its somewhat of a moot point. There's never been a case that's gone to verdict on the matter, so its still somewhat of a gray area. But the reason they don't go to verdict is because the offending company has always agreed to a large cash settlement. Target's $6MM settlement with the Federation for the Blind is the most recent case.[1] There's plenty of large websites that drop the ball here (e.g., Reddit), but that doesn't mean its safe to do so. Ignore accessibility at your own risk. [1]http://www.webstandards.org/2008/08/28/what-the-target-settlement-should-mean-to-you/ http://www.webstandards.org/2008/08/28/what-the-target-settl...

boucher 17y ago
If you honestly believe that people shouldn't make applications that don't work without JavaScript, then you are without question saying that there are applications which should not be built on the web. I respect that opinion, but I don't agree with it.
ique 17y ago
Why can't blind people have browsers with javascript? I've never thought about it, but text to speech and the like should not require that the browser does not have javascript?
kls 17y ago
As a person with disabilities (100% color blindness) I have to call foul on this one. One of the most out of the box solutions for A11Y is build into the Dojo toolkit, a JavaScript framework. By the flip of a style class an entire application can be adapted to a person with a specific disability. Ajax done correctly makes targeting persons with disabilities simpler not more complex. http://www.dojotoolkit.org/developer/a11yStatement http://www.dojotoolkit.org/developer/a11yStatement