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First off, thanks for providing some concrete examples. That said, those all fundamentally sound like process problems to me. They would not have been allowed

First off, thanks for providing some concrete examples. That said, those all fundamentally sound like process problems to me. They would not have been allowed to happen at either of the companies I have worked for or any of the companies I have worked with, at least not to a degree that they would harm products. Sure, we have shit code down in the bowels of our libraries, and some of it was put there by people who didn't know what they were doing. I would not characterize any of it as serious problems, though. Those tend to either not live long or not make it into the codebase in the first place. I understand there is a tradeoff here, and that "process" is a dirty word to many people. A little process can go a long way, though. It can make problems like those you describe minor or non-existent. To me this seems like a small price to pay for opening up your hiring process and dealing with the poor choices. On a slight tangent and speaking of costs, I get the impression that many people discount the cost of a false negative. You are trying to hire people for a reason. Your company is incurring costs from not having this person, be it the lost revenue from expanding or the actual costs of working your current engineers harder to meet deadlines. That needs to enter into the equation, along with the costs of false positives and the costs of mitigating same.

tokenrove 12y ago
Even though process is intended to mitigate the damage an individual can cause, in practice it's hard to have a good process without good people. Everywhere I've felt that a poor hire had serious negative effects on a company, those employees were also obstacles to bringing in a better process. I agree with you that the cost of a false negative must be considered. The kind of bad hire I'm thinking of here is a net negative producer that actively costs the company money (or even causes good employees to leave), even after they're gone (if you can manage to get rid of them).
Bahamut 12y ago
I agree that good process is of vital importance. At one of the aforementioned companies, there was little process. At another, they appeared to have near mastered it (some issues, but overall exhibited excellent leadership & management). At one, the process is seriously broken. I am starting to feel that if there is some bad code that does some longer term damage, the managers are at fault.

tokenrove 12y ago

Even though process is intended to mitigate the damage an individual can cause, in practice it's hard to have a good process without good people. Everywhere I've felt that a poor hire had serious negative effects on a company, those employees were also obstacles to bringing in a better process. I agree with you that the cost of a false negative must be considered. The kind of bad hire I'm thinking of here is a net negative producer that actively costs the company money (or even causes good employees to leave), even after they're gone (if you can manage to get rid of them).

Bahamut 12y ago

I agree that good process is of vital importance. At one of the aforementioned companies, there was little process. At another, they appeared to have near mastered it (some issues, but overall exhibited excellent leadership & management). At one, the process is seriously broken. I am starting to feel that if there is some bad code that does some longer term damage, the managers are at fault.