5 ms·

Peter I've always been curious about how these sort of agreements worked. After publishing a few books, you hope negotiating gets easier. $170,000 in 2 years

by datums 17y ago

Peter I've always been curious about how these sort of agreements worked. After publishing a few books, you hope negotiating gets easier. $170,000 in 2 years is a nice return. Thanks.

tptacek 17y ago
Just to be clear: $170k is what Apress made off of him. He himself made $19,000. His book was an unusually strong seller (it outsold Resig's book). For most books, the advance is calibrated to cover all the expected royalties. Authorship contracts are a ripoff.
- dschobel 17y ago
  I'm almost afraid to ask, but what happens if the sales don't cover the advance?
  - petercooper 17y ago
    With most publishing contracts I'm aware of, nothing. From what I understand, this is in stark contrast to the music industry where artists can need to pay back certain expenses. In terms of Apress (and, I believe most non-fiction publishers), the money you get in advance is, I believe, non returnable. That's why the advances aren't that generous.
    - percept 17y ago
      IIRC most of the authors used to view the advance as the only real money. Any royalties that might appear were like manna from heaven. I hope everybody doesn't mind me brain-dumping in this thread--it's the only place this stuff can go.
  - tptacek 17y ago
    In the circumstances I'm familiar with, the advance is yours. Who cares, though? Everyone who has ever written a technical book --- with the possible exception of Graham, who is a different kind of writer --- will tell you that finishing a book is far more difficult than they thought it would be at first, and most people allocate multiple months to their original estimate. Against your lowest conceivable contracting rate, you will never come within radio telescope detectability of breaking even by writing a book for a major publisher. Publishers know you know that, so their entire pitch will be, "authoring a book will be excellent for your reputation and career". This is true in the same sense as getting a Microsoft MVP merit badge is good for your career; look at some of the people who write books, present company excepted.
- datums 17y ago
  Based on the amount of money he can generate , he should in future negotiations have more pull.
  - tptacek 17y ago
    I don't believe that to be the case, unless Ruby and JS books work very differently from other technical topics. There are probably people like the late Richard Stevens who could call the shots, but big-name tech people I know who've written multiple books have gotten crappier deals than the one Cooper is describing here. What mystifies me is, if you have a successful first book, the career argument for writing a second book is much weaker. Under no circumstances will the money ever work out in your favor. Why do people write multiple books? I guess they must just love writing; I can understand that.
    - datums 17y ago
      I think Ruby and other techbooks now have more channels of distribution. So the author does have an option of not going with Apress. Why settle if the deal is crap ? It would be interesting to have other authors tell us about there experiences. The transparency could put pressure on publishers.
      - tptacek 17y ago
        This topic always makes me think of "Getting Real": http://37signals.com/svn/archives2/75day_getting_real_book_stats_update.php http://37signals.com/svn/archives2/75day_getting_real_book_s... Yes, you are not as well-marketed at 37signals. On the other hand, $175,000 (!!!) is a very very very long shot from $19,000.
  - percept 17y ago
    When I was still involved with writing, published technical authors were able to negotiate better royalty rates for subsequent deals, particularly if they had representation (but not exclusively--as always it depends on your negotiating skills).

by datums 17y ago

Peter I've always been curious about how these sort of agreements worked. After publishing a few books, you hope negotiating gets easier. $170,000 in 2 years is a nice return. Thanks.

tptacek 17y ago

Just to be clear: $170k is what Apress made off of him. He himself made $19,000. His book was an unusually strong seller (it outsold Resig's book). For most books, the advance is calibrated to cover all the expected royalties. Authorship contracts are a ripoff.

dschobel 17y ago
I'm almost afraid to ask, but what happens if the sales don't cover the advance?
- petercooper 17y ago
  With most publishing contracts I'm aware of, nothing. From what I understand, this is in stark contrast to the music industry where artists can need to pay back certain expenses. In terms of Apress (and, I believe most non-fiction publishers), the money you get in advance is, I believe, non returnable. That's why the advances aren't that generous.
  - percept 17y ago
    IIRC most of the authors used to view the advance as the only real money. Any royalties that might appear were like manna from heaven. I hope everybody doesn't mind me brain-dumping in this thread--it's the only place this stuff can go.
- tptacek 17y ago
  In the circumstances I'm familiar with, the advance is yours. Who cares, though? Everyone who has ever written a technical book --- with the possible exception of Graham, who is a different kind of writer --- will tell you that finishing a book is far more difficult than they thought it would be at first, and most people allocate multiple months to their original estimate. Against your lowest conceivable contracting rate, you will never come within radio telescope detectability of breaking even by writing a book for a major publisher. Publishers know you know that, so their entire pitch will be, "authoring a book will be excellent for your reputation and career". This is true in the same sense as getting a Microsoft MVP merit badge is good for your career; look at some of the people who write books, present company excepted.
datums 17y ago
Based on the amount of money he can generate , he should in future negotiations have more pull.
- tptacek 17y ago
  I don't believe that to be the case, unless Ruby and JS books work very differently from other technical topics. There are probably people like the late Richard Stevens who could call the shots, but big-name tech people I know who've written multiple books have gotten crappier deals than the one Cooper is describing here. What mystifies me is, if you have a successful first book, the career argument for writing a second book is much weaker. Under no circumstances will the money ever work out in your favor. Why do people write multiple books? I guess they must just love writing; I can understand that.
  - datums 17y ago
    I think Ruby and other techbooks now have more channels of distribution. So the author does have an option of not going with Apress. Why settle if the deal is crap ? It would be interesting to have other authors tell us about there experiences. The transparency could put pressure on publishers.
    - tptacek 17y ago
      This topic always makes me think of "Getting Real": http://37signals.com/svn/archives2/75day_getting_real_book_stats_update.php http://37signals.com/svn/archives2/75day_getting_real_book_s... Yes, you are not as well-marketed at 37signals. On the other hand, $175,000 (!!!) is a very very very long shot from $19,000.
- percept 17y ago
  When I was still involved with writing, published technical authors were able to negotiate better royalty rates for subsequent deals, particularly if they had representation (but not exclusively--as always it depends on your negotiating skills).