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Is this also the first real perpetual motion machine? That thing looks like it could go on forever. Or is it limited by the current in the battery? If it is, co

Is this also the first real perpetual motion machine? That thing looks like it could go on forever. Or is it limited by the current in the battery? If it is, could the motion provide back the energy to the battery somehow, and would it be a net positive?

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
- lerouxb 12y ago
  If I could vote you up 10000 times, I would.
- yoha 12y ago
  Physics isn't mandatory in high schools in the US? I could not find much about this so any information is welcome: are there federal laws that set the mandatory courses in high school or is it state-dependent? where can we find what these courses are? For France, I was able to find the following information: Seconde: http://www.education.gouv.fr/cid52692/les-enseignements-nouvelle-seconde.html http://www.education.gouv.fr/cid52692/les-enseignements-nouv... Première: http://eduscol.education.fr/pid23202-cid46459/programmes-du-cycle-terminal-de-la-voie-technologique.html http://eduscol.education.fr/pid23202-cid46459/programmes-du-... Terminale: http://eduscol.education.fr/pid23202-cid46522/programmes-du-cycle-terminal-de-la-voie-generale.html http://eduscol.education.fr/pid23202-cid46522/programmes-du-... Basically, physics are still a mandatory course in all high school. -- Since I was started with this, I wrote a short explanation on student years before graduation in France: In France, we count student years away from graduation: Sixième ("Sixth", 6th), Cinquième ("Fifth", 7th), Quatrième ("Fourth", 8th), Troisième ("Third", 9th) are medium high ("collège") while Seconde ("Second", 10th), Première ("First", 11th) and Terminale ("Final", 12th) are high-school. And we have specific names for our five-year elementary school ("École primaire"): Cours Préparatoire ("Preparatory course/class", 1st), Cours Élémentaire 1 ("Elementary class 1", 2nd) and 2 (3rd), Cours Moyen 1 ("Average class 1", 4th) and 2 (5th). And before that is non-mandatory kindergarten ("École maternelle"): "Petite section [de maternelle]", "Moyenne section" and "Grande section". All of this is summed up here: http://www.frenchentree.com/living-in-france/education/french-school-grade-equivalents/ http://www.frenchentree.com/living-in-france/education/frenc... .
  - bane 12y ago
    No. It depends on the local standards, but generally we have a choice of different sciences we can pursue. When I was in highschool I took Earth Science, Chemistry I, Chemistry II, Biology, Bio-lab I, Bio-lab II. I could have swapped out Earth Science for Physics and one of the labs for a Physics lab if I had wanted, but at the time my maths were poor enough that I decided to stay in the less "mathy" sciences and more lab work.
BoppreH 12y ago
The motion depletes the battery, no different than a toy car motor. Yes, you could theoretically provide energy back to the battery. No, it would not be a net positive. It would deplete the battery faster, for a net loss because of unavoidable conversion inefficiencies. Edit: if you saw this video, realized there was a battery involved, and your first thought was "Perpetual Motion Device!", you might be delusional or severely misinformed. For your own sake, please research the topic a bit more and avoid echo chambers.
- dang 12y ago
  This comment would be better without the second paragraph, which is needlessly personal and meta. The first paragraph is splendid.
  - BoppreH 12y ago
    I agree the second paragraph is personal and meta, and I don't like it either. But if I ever go down a rabbit hole and end up detached from reality, I would love to have someone to tip me off. It's like pointing out someone's fly is open. Maybe OP is perfectly sane and just got confused on the physics of this system. Maybe they are very young. Or I misread their comment. In that case, OP has my deepest apologies. It's just that perpetual motion is a well known trap for intelligent people; and expressions like "first real perpetual motion machine" and "provide back the energy to the battery somehow" make me worry that a fellow human being is going down the wrong path.
    - dang 12y ago
      Thanks for clarifying the helpful intention behind the comment. That does make sense. Probably all it needed to do was make the intention a bit more explicit, so it wouldn't be mistaken for one-upmanship. By the way, your reply was so neutral and respectful that I didn't realize you were the original commenter. That's remarkable, so thank you.
- devindotcom 12y ago
  Quite an unnecessary, mean-spirited, and mistaken edit. OP, your confusion is perfectly normal. I came here to post that my dad would think this is a perpetual motion machine. He simply is not familiar with the physical laws that make such a thing impossible and likes the idea of it.
reledi 12y ago
Please stop downvoting higherpurpose for being curious and asking a question like this. We all lack knowledge in different areas, that shouldn't prevent us from positively participating because we fear repercussions.
- yetihehe 12y ago
  I would rather see that people are prevented from participating when they have nothing very insightful to say. This policy prevented me from posting some stupid comments and I think this made HN better. You should stop and think before submitting your comment. Otherwise HN will change into another slashdot where stupid uninformed comments are rampant. If there are no repercussions to people who don't think before posting, there will be more people, who don't think before posting ;).
  - hotgoldminer 12y ago
    Sure, I can induce that if it is a battery, it is being used as a power source. Others may induce that it is simply a thing with north and south magnetic poles. While I understand I am contributing to the phenomenon, HN threads often derail and become critiques about what HN should and should not be.
  - alan_cx 12y ago
    A question was asked. That implies a lack of knowledge. Given that lack of knowledge, how is one to know if the question is regarded by people who do have that knowledge as "stupid"?
    - Someone 12y ago
      I wouldn't downvote it, but "Is this also the first real perpetual motion machine?" indicates that the one asking the question is familiar with the terminology, and even knows that all known perpetual motion machines aren't real. If so, in this forum, I think we can assume that (s)he also can google that term and make some deductions from what (s)he finds. It is not as if (s)he does not have Internet access. "I googled, and found differing opinions on whether perpetual motion is possible. Is this an example that shows that it is?" would be a better question. It still would surprise me that there are people on HN who would pose such a question about such a simple device, but it would show some intelligence and a will to make an effort to learn. The OP still may have both, but the way the question is posed doesn't show it.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

lerouxb 12y ago
If I could vote you up 10000 times, I would.
yoha 12y ago
Physics isn't mandatory in high schools in the US? I could not find much about this so any information is welcome: are there federal laws that set the mandatory courses in high school or is it state-dependent? where can we find what these courses are? For France, I was able to find the following information: Seconde: http://www.education.gouv.fr/cid52692/les-enseignements-nouvelle-seconde.html http://www.education.gouv.fr/cid52692/les-enseignements-nouv... Première: http://eduscol.education.fr/pid23202-cid46459/programmes-du-cycle-terminal-de-la-voie-technologique.html http://eduscol.education.fr/pid23202-cid46459/programmes-du-... Terminale: http://eduscol.education.fr/pid23202-cid46522/programmes-du-cycle-terminal-de-la-voie-generale.html http://eduscol.education.fr/pid23202-cid46522/programmes-du-... Basically, physics are still a mandatory course in all high school. -- Since I was started with this, I wrote a short explanation on student years before graduation in France: In France, we count student years away from graduation: Sixième ("Sixth", 6th), Cinquième ("Fifth", 7th), Quatrième ("Fourth", 8th), Troisième ("Third", 9th) are medium high ("collège") while Seconde ("Second", 10th), Première ("First", 11th) and Terminale ("Final", 12th) are high-school. And we have specific names for our five-year elementary school ("École primaire"): Cours Préparatoire ("Preparatory course/class", 1st), Cours Élémentaire 1 ("Elementary class 1", 2nd) and 2 (3rd), Cours Moyen 1 ("Average class 1", 4th) and 2 (5th). And before that is non-mandatory kindergarten ("École maternelle"): "Petite section [de maternelle]", "Moyenne section" and "Grande section". All of this is summed up here: http://www.frenchentree.com/living-in-france/education/french-school-grade-equivalents/ http://www.frenchentree.com/living-in-france/education/frenc... .
- bane 12y ago
  No. It depends on the local standards, but generally we have a choice of different sciences we can pursue. When I was in highschool I took Earth Science, Chemistry I, Chemistry II, Biology, Bio-lab I, Bio-lab II. I could have swapped out Earth Science for Physics and one of the labs for a Physics lab if I had wanted, but at the time my maths were poor enough that I decided to stay in the less "mathy" sciences and more lab work.

BoppreH 12y ago

The motion depletes the battery, no different than a toy car motor. Yes, you could theoretically provide energy back to the battery. No, it would not be a net positive. It would deplete the battery faster, for a net loss because of unavoidable conversion inefficiencies. Edit: if you saw this video, realized there was a battery involved, and your first thought was "Perpetual Motion Device!", you might be delusional or severely misinformed. For your own sake, please research the topic a bit more and avoid echo chambers.

dang 12y ago
This comment would be better without the second paragraph, which is needlessly personal and meta. The first paragraph is splendid.
- BoppreH 12y ago
  I agree the second paragraph is personal and meta, and I don't like it either. But if I ever go down a rabbit hole and end up detached from reality, I would love to have someone to tip me off. It's like pointing out someone's fly is open. Maybe OP is perfectly sane and just got confused on the physics of this system. Maybe they are very young. Or I misread their comment. In that case, OP has my deepest apologies. It's just that perpetual motion is a well known trap for intelligent people; and expressions like "first real perpetual motion machine" and "provide back the energy to the battery somehow" make me worry that a fellow human being is going down the wrong path.
  - dang 12y ago
    Thanks for clarifying the helpful intention behind the comment. That does make sense. Probably all it needed to do was make the intention a bit more explicit, so it wouldn't be mistaken for one-upmanship. By the way, your reply was so neutral and respectful that I didn't realize you were the original commenter. That's remarkable, so thank you.
devindotcom 12y ago
Quite an unnecessary, mean-spirited, and mistaken edit. OP, your confusion is perfectly normal. I came here to post that my dad would think this is a perpetual motion machine. He simply is not familiar with the physical laws that make such a thing impossible and likes the idea of it.

reledi 12y ago

Please stop downvoting higherpurpose for being curious and asking a question like this. We all lack knowledge in different areas, that shouldn't prevent us from positively participating because we fear repercussions.

yetihehe 12y ago
I would rather see that people are prevented from participating when they have nothing very insightful to say. This policy prevented me from posting some stupid comments and I think this made HN better. You should stop and think before submitting your comment. Otherwise HN will change into another slashdot where stupid uninformed comments are rampant. If there are no repercussions to people who don't think before posting, there will be more people, who don't think before posting ;).
- hotgoldminer 12y ago
  Sure, I can induce that if it is a battery, it is being used as a power source. Others may induce that it is simply a thing with north and south magnetic poles. While I understand I am contributing to the phenomenon, HN threads often derail and become critiques about what HN should and should not be.
- alan_cx 12y ago
  A question was asked. That implies a lack of knowledge. Given that lack of knowledge, how is one to know if the question is regarded by people who do have that knowledge as "stupid"?
  - Someone 12y ago
    I wouldn't downvote it, but "Is this also the first real perpetual motion machine?" indicates that the one asking the question is familiar with the terminology, and even knows that all known perpetual motion machines aren't real. If so, in this forum, I think we can assume that (s)he also can google that term and make some deductions from what (s)he finds. It is not as if (s)he does not have Internet access. "I googled, and found differing opinions on whether perpetual motion is possible. Is this an example that shows that it is?" would be a better question. It still would surprise me that there are people on HN who would pose such a question about such a simple device, but it would show some intelligence and a will to make an effort to learn. The OP still may have both, but the way the question is posed doesn't show it.