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Without commenting on your opinions, let me touch upon one point you make: > I've worked at multiple companies (managed their websites) -- where we would tempo

Without commenting on your opinions, let me touch upon one point you make: > I've worked at multiple companies (managed their websites) -- where we would temporarily post a job description to appear that it was a fair playing field for local workers -- when in reality that position was definitely, absolutely going to be filled by a cheaper, exploitable H1B visa position. Alyandon below also says: > I worked as a contract developer for over 10 years and this was absolutely the norm for the companies I worked at. It was so egregious at some places that HR would go as far as to get the exact list of skills from the H1B they wanted to hire and then tailor a job posting to that exact list of skills in order to disqualify local applicants. Could you and others give us the names of these companies? I'd be very interested to know if such abuse is seemingly random or tends towards a certain kind of company, because I have my suspicions that it's the latter, and simple legislation could easily be passed to prevent that.

manticore_alpha 12y ago
I can't name names. I can tell you one was the kind of company you're probably thinking about, and the other was a publicly-traded (now) supply chain company.
- illumen 12y ago
  If you can't provide any evidence, you're making it up.
  - falcolas 12y ago
    Or, he fears blacklisting in what is a closed market. The number of employees who have identical work histories is pretty slim; naming 2-3 of them would be very identifying. I've seen this (job openings explicitly tailored for new or exisiting H1B employees) quite a bit myself, and I too am unwilling to "name names" for the same reason.
    - LLWM 12y ago
      Then there's no reason for anyone to take your concerns seriously.
  - coddingtonbear 12y ago
    Please do keep in mind that NDAs are a thing.
Torgo 12y ago
To support his claim here's a video of a law firm advising companies on exactly how to craft employment ads to hire only foreign workers and not hire Americans even if they are qualified. In fact he even says it explicitly, the goal is to not hire a domestic worker, and getting a suitably experienced domestic worker applying for the job is considered a failure state of the process. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU It tells you where to place your ads so that they are "publicly visible" but nobody sees them, and how to craft them to the exact skillset of the foreign worker you're already going to hire. They say that they are complying with the letter of the law, but they are not because the law requires you to make a good faith effort to hire domestically and they are telling you how to reject those candidates even if they apply. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TCbFEgFajGU#t=93 https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TC... "our goal is clearly to not to find a qualified and interested US worker." I understand the skepticism on HN because many people are working in places where real high-end work is being done. But I worked in the Midwest for over eight years and we had guys brought in to do Apache Struts work, and half the time I had to teach them how to do it. Maybe part of the reason some of you guys who really need qualified foreign workers are getting squeezed is because other companies are screwing you by fraudulently hiring. Why weren't the people in that video above ever prosecuted? They're on video admitting to crimes.
es09 12y ago
Not here to give any names, but I can third this observation. The job description ads are absolutely tailored and never intended to hire anyone local. But there is one good reason why that happens - OPT. Foreign students graduate out of US schools and join companies here and work legally by enrolling in the OPT program that can last upto 28 months. During this time, the only way the company can hire them full-time is through the H1B program. The whole charade with creating these oddly specific ads and posting them where no one can see them is because there is no other way to continue employing the same people. The same thing is repeated as part of PERM because the company is supposed to post an ad to hire someone for a job to make sure no one local is available, but that person has already been hired!

manticore_alpha 12y ago

I can't name names. I can tell you one was the kind of company you're probably thinking about, and the other was a publicly-traded (now) supply chain company.

illumen 12y ago
If you can't provide any evidence, you're making it up.
- falcolas 12y ago
  Or, he fears blacklisting in what is a closed market. The number of employees who have identical work histories is pretty slim; naming 2-3 of them would be very identifying. I've seen this (job openings explicitly tailored for new or exisiting H1B employees) quite a bit myself, and I too am unwilling to "name names" for the same reason.
  - LLWM 12y ago
    Then there's no reason for anyone to take your concerns seriously.
- coddingtonbear 12y ago
  Please do keep in mind that NDAs are a thing.

Torgo 12y ago

To support his claim here's a video of a law firm advising companies on exactly how to craft employment ads to hire only foreign workers and not hire Americans even if they are qualified. In fact he even says it explicitly, the goal is to not hire a domestic worker, and getting a suitably experienced domestic worker applying for the job is considered a failure state of the process. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU It tells you where to place your ads so that they are "publicly visible" but nobody sees them, and how to craft them to the exact skillset of the foreign worker you're already going to hire. They say that they are complying with the letter of the law, but they are not because the law requires you to make a good faith effort to hire domestically and they are telling you how to reject those candidates even if they apply. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TCbFEgFajGU#t=93 https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TC... "our goal is clearly to not to find a qualified and interested US worker." I understand the skepticism on HN because many people are working in places where real high-end work is being done. But I worked in the Midwest for over eight years and we had guys brought in to do Apache Struts work, and half the time I had to teach them how to do it. Maybe part of the reason some of you guys who really need qualified foreign workers are getting squeezed is because other companies are screwing you by fraudulently hiring. Why weren't the people in that video above ever prosecuted? They're on video admitting to crimes.

es09 12y ago

Not here to give any names, but I can third this observation. The job description ads are absolutely tailored and never intended to hire anyone local. But there is one good reason why that happens - OPT. Foreign students graduate out of US schools and join companies here and work legally by enrolling in the OPT program that can last upto 28 months. During this time, the only way the company can hire them full-time is through the H1B program. The whole charade with creating these oddly specific ads and posting them where no one can see them is because there is no other way to continue employing the same people. The same thing is repeated as part of PERM because the company is supposed to post an ad to hire someone for a job to make sure no one local is available, but that person has already been hired!