4 ms·

You are judging it by Western standards. They may have nothing on him and don't actually mean to arrest him etc., it's just intimidation tactics

by V-2 12y ago

gonzo 12y ago
In Soviet US, SWAT breaks door anyway.
valar_m 12y ago
Yeah it definitely sounded like an intimidation attempt, though a rather ill-conceived one. If they had a search warrant, it seems odd to me that they chose not to force entry. If they didn't have a warrant, I would think they would have a plan if consent was not given to enter -- getting punked out when intimidation was your goal is a pretty embarrassing result.
- V-2 12y ago
  It's sort of a Russian tradition, valar_m. Even the most powerful were harassed like that, and even in Stalin era the police would just back off sometimes. It's not them punking out; it's showing contempt. "We are not in a rush, little one". The purpose is to wear the victim down. "[General] Zhukov had always been notified about meetings so this impromptu one worried him. The night before the meeting, three men came to Zhukov’s home for a random search, but they had no warrant. Zhukov threatened to use weapons, forcing them off his property. After they left, he did not sleep the entire night, fearful of the next morning." https://huhtaj.wordpress.com/scholarly-writing/power-struggle-the-zhukov-stalin-conflict/ https://huhtaj.wordpress.com/scholarly-writing/power-struggl... He pulled a rifle against NKVD functionaires and they walked away. Was it THAT soft under Stalin's regime? No, it's just toying. Cat and mouse. It's about sending a message: we can get you any time we want, even if you're a world famous general or Russian Zuckerberg etc. American, or, in general, Western commentators often don't understand this type of moves because they belong to a different political vocabulary, so to speak. "Hah! They even had no warrant, how amateurish of them" - no, that's the POINT. This could likely be part of some behind-the-scenes "negotiations" between Kremlin and the owner of VK... Police brutality and abuse in the West (or probably anywhere, for that matter) is a fact of life, but this is not the same thing.
  - valar_m 12y ago
    I know "thanks!" comments are frowned upon, but I wanted you to know that I appreciate your response. You are absolutely correct, at least in my case, about Westerners being unfamiliar with the underpinnings of this society. Thanks for shedding a little bit of light.
    - V-2 12y ago
      I never frown upon being thanked ;) pleased to know my two cents were useful
the_af 12y ago
At least in some Western countries, the standards are to break the door down anyway, and maybe hold him at gunpoint (see: http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas/dp/1610392116 http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americ...)
deciplex 12y ago
American cops use intimidation tactics all the damn time. It's just that, when they do it, it almost always results in an arrest, and often a death. Also, they intimidate entire communities at a time, seldom bothering with this one-at-a-time stuff. [1] And let's be clear, we're talking about the US here, not the entire fucking West - brutal American LEO tactics are most decidedly not par for the course in the West.

You are judging it by Western standards. They may have nothing on him and don't actually mean to arrest him etc., it's just intimidation tactics

by V-2 12y ago

You are judging it by Western standards. They may have nothing on him and don't actually mean to arrest him etc., it's just intimidation tactics

gonzo 12y ago

In Soviet US, SWAT breaks door anyway.

valar_m 12y ago

Yeah it definitely sounded like an intimidation attempt, though a rather ill-conceived one. If they had a search warrant, it seems odd to me that they chose not to force entry. If they didn't have a warrant, I would think they would have a plan if consent was not given to enter -- getting punked out when intimidation was your goal is a pretty embarrassing result.

V-2 12y ago
It's sort of a Russian tradition, valar_m. Even the most powerful were harassed like that, and even in Stalin era the police would just back off sometimes. It's not them punking out; it's showing contempt. "We are not in a rush, little one". The purpose is to wear the victim down. "[General] Zhukov had always been notified about meetings so this impromptu one worried him. The night before the meeting, three men came to Zhukov’s home for a random search, but they had no warrant. Zhukov threatened to use weapons, forcing them off his property. After they left, he did not sleep the entire night, fearful of the next morning." https://huhtaj.wordpress.com/scholarly-writing/power-struggle-the-zhukov-stalin-conflict/ https://huhtaj.wordpress.com/scholarly-writing/power-struggl... He pulled a rifle against NKVD functionaires and they walked away. Was it THAT soft under Stalin's regime? No, it's just toying. Cat and mouse. It's about sending a message: we can get you any time we want, even if you're a world famous general or Russian Zuckerberg etc. American, or, in general, Western commentators often don't understand this type of moves because they belong to a different political vocabulary, so to speak. "Hah! They even had no warrant, how amateurish of them" - no, that's the POINT. This could likely be part of some behind-the-scenes "negotiations" between Kremlin and the owner of VK... Police brutality and abuse in the West (or probably anywhere, for that matter) is a fact of life, but this is not the same thing.
- valar_m 12y ago
  I know "thanks!" comments are frowned upon, but I wanted you to know that I appreciate your response. You are absolutely correct, at least in my case, about Westerners being unfamiliar with the underpinnings of this society. Thanks for shedding a little bit of light.
  - V-2 12y ago
    I never frown upon being thanked ;) pleased to know my two cents were useful

the_af 12y ago

At least in some Western countries, the standards are to break the door down anyway, and maybe hold him at gunpoint (see: http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americas/dp/1610392116 http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Militarization-Americ...)

deciplex 12y ago

American cops use intimidation tactics all the damn time. It's just that, when they do it, it almost always results in an arrest, and often a death. Also, they intimidate entire communities at a time, seldom bothering with this one-at-a-time stuff. [1] And let's be clear, we're talking about the US here, not the entire fucking West - brutal American LEO tactics are most decidedly not par for the course in the West.