5 ms·

During the standoff with the SWAT team, which took place soon after, he wouldn’t answer the door. They went home after an hour. Wait, what? Is that what police

by valar_m 12y ago

During the standoff with the SWAT team, which took place soon after, he wouldn’t answer the door. They went home after an hour. Wait, what? Is that what police in Russia normally do? This would never, ever happen in the United States. LAPD actually even has a "Wrong Doors Unit" which goes around repairing broken down doors when the cops raid the wrong address.[0] [0] http://www.dailynews.com/20080316/repairs-help-rebuild-lapds-image-when-wrong-door-broken-down http://www.dailynews.com/20080316/repairs-help-rebuild-lapds...

Energy1 12y ago
Is there one-to-one correspondence between the damage done and repair job? How about the emotional distress?
guard-of-terra 12y ago
In Russia cops can't enter your home unless they suspect some crime to be carried right this moment or have a court order. You have to open door for them. However I'm not a lawyer and that might not be valid anymore.
- gcb0 12y ago
  much like the US law from some.... wow a decade ago now. has it been that long?
- valar_m 12y ago
  I should have been more clear -- The article doesn't say, but I was assuming that the SWAT team was there to execute a search warrant. Perhaps they did not and that's why they didn't force entry, but the SWAT team showing up without a search warrant makes even less sense to me.
  - tlear 12y ago
    It was a threat, they were letting him know that his time in Russia was coming to an end. He took the hint and bailed before he got into an "accident"
    - psykovsky 12y ago
      That's almost nice of them, you know. Giving you a shot to get out of there and all.
V-2 12y ago
You are judging it by Western standards. They may have nothing on him and don't actually mean to arrest him etc., it's just intimidation tactics
- gonzo 12y ago
  In Soviet US, SWAT breaks door anyway.
- valar_m 12y ago
  Yeah it definitely sounded like an intimidation attempt, though a rather ill-conceived one. If they had a search warrant, it seems odd to me that they chose not to force entry. If they didn't have a warrant, I would think they would have a plan if consent was not given to enter -- getting punked out when intimidation was your goal is a pretty embarrassing result.
  - V-2 12y ago
    It's sort of a Russian tradition, valar_m. Even the most powerful were harassed like that, and even in Stalin era the police would just back off sometimes. It's not them punking out; it's showing contempt. "We are not in a rush, little one". The purpose is to wear the victim down. "[General] Zhukov had always been notified about meetings so this impromptu one worried him. The night before the meeting, three men came to Zhukov’s home for a random search, but they had no warrant. Zhukov threatened to use weapons, forcing them off his property. After they left, he did not sleep the entire night, fearful of the next morning." https://huhtaj.wordpress.com/scholarly-writing/power-struggle-the-zhukov-stalin-conflict/ https://huhtaj.wordpress.com/scholarly-writing/power-struggl... He pulled a rifle against NKVD functionaires and they walked away. Was it THAT soft under Stalin's regime? No, it's just toying. Cat and mouse. It's about sending a message: we can get you any time we want, even if you're a world famous general or Russian Zuckerberg etc. American, or, in general, Western commentators often don't understand this type of moves because they belong to a different political vocabulary, so to speak. "Hah! They even had no warrant, how amateurish of them" - no, that's the POINT. This could likely be part of some behind-the-scenes "negotiations" between Kremlin and the owner of VK... Police brutality and abuse in the West (or probably anywhere, for that matter) is a fact of life, but this is not the same thing.
jmngomes 12y ago
Don't really see any grounds for comparison...anyway, corporate raids and coups are, unfortunately, quite common in Russia: http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/magnitsky-verdict-is-in-russia-is-a-criminal-state/483128.html http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/magnitsky-verd...
- valar_m 12y ago
  I'm not making a comparison, I'm simply pointing out the stark contrast between law enforcement tactics in Russia versus the United States.

by valar_m 12y ago

Energy1 12y ago

Is there one-to-one correspondence between the damage done and repair job? How about the emotional distress?

guard-of-terra 12y ago

In Russia cops can't enter your home unless they suspect some crime to be carried right this moment or have a court order. You have to open door for them. However I'm not a lawyer and that might not be valid anymore.

gcb0 12y ago
much like the US law from some.... wow a decade ago now. has it been that long?
valar_m 12y ago
I should have been more clear -- The article doesn't say, but I was assuming that the SWAT team was there to execute a search warrant. Perhaps they did not and that's why they didn't force entry, but the SWAT team showing up without a search warrant makes even less sense to me.
- tlear 12y ago
  It was a threat, they were letting him know that his time in Russia was coming to an end. He took the hint and bailed before he got into an "accident"
  - psykovsky 12y ago
    That's almost nice of them, you know. Giving you a shot to get out of there and all.

V-2 12y ago

You are judging it by Western standards. They may have nothing on him and don't actually mean to arrest him etc., it's just intimidation tactics

gonzo 12y ago
In Soviet US, SWAT breaks door anyway.
valar_m 12y ago
Yeah it definitely sounded like an intimidation attempt, though a rather ill-conceived one. If they had a search warrant, it seems odd to me that they chose not to force entry. If they didn't have a warrant, I would think they would have a plan if consent was not given to enter -- getting punked out when intimidation was your goal is a pretty embarrassing result.
- V-2 12y ago
  It's sort of a Russian tradition, valar_m. Even the most powerful were harassed like that, and even in Stalin era the police would just back off sometimes. It's not them punking out; it's showing contempt. "We are not in a rush, little one". The purpose is to wear the victim down. "[General] Zhukov had always been notified about meetings so this impromptu one worried him. The night before the meeting, three men came to Zhukov’s home for a random search, but they had no warrant. Zhukov threatened to use weapons, forcing them off his property. After they left, he did not sleep the entire night, fearful of the next morning." https://huhtaj.wordpress.com/scholarly-writing/power-struggle-the-zhukov-stalin-conflict/ https://huhtaj.wordpress.com/scholarly-writing/power-struggl... He pulled a rifle against NKVD functionaires and they walked away. Was it THAT soft under Stalin's regime? No, it's just toying. Cat and mouse. It's about sending a message: we can get you any time we want, even if you're a world famous general or Russian Zuckerberg etc. American, or, in general, Western commentators often don't understand this type of moves because they belong to a different political vocabulary, so to speak. "Hah! They even had no warrant, how amateurish of them" - no, that's the POINT. This could likely be part of some behind-the-scenes "negotiations" between Kremlin and the owner of VK... Police brutality and abuse in the West (or probably anywhere, for that matter) is a fact of life, but this is not the same thing.

jmngomes 12y ago

Don't really see any grounds for comparison...anyway, corporate raids and coups are, unfortunately, quite common in Russia: http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/magnitsky-verdict-is-in-russia-is-a-criminal-state/483128.html http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/magnitsky-verd...

valar_m 12y ago
I'm not making a comparison, I'm simply pointing out the stark contrast between law enforcement tactics in Russia versus the United States.