7 ms·

Publish and Perish at Imperial College London: The Death of Stefan Grimm

141 points by pms 12y ago

mikecmpbll 12y ago
There's almost no academic pride left in British universities. There may be amongst the staff and students, but not at the top. So disappointing.
pms 12y ago
It seems that the articles is not available any more... Here is a copy: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s5/sh/cb87dfea-7551-46e7-a162-82da078d15b5/a086e1e698c57954d73586da5e6f8f8e https://www.evernote.com/shard/s5/sh/cb87dfea-7551-46e7-a162... Also, here is one of early comments: http://musicfordeckchairs.wordpress.com/2014/12/02/wider-lessons/ http://musicfordeckchairs.wordpress.com/2014/12/02/wider-les...
Create 12y ago
Indeed, this change will only increase the uncertainty for the staff on an LD contract, who by the time they are offered an IC contract will on average be more than 40 years old, quite a long time before knowing whether they can look forward to some long-term stability for themselves and their families. http://cds.cern.ch/journal/CERNBulletin/2014/49/Staff%20Association/1972030?ln=en http://cds.cern.ch/journal/CERNBulletin/2014/49/Staff%20Asso...
- hobo_mark 12y ago
  Looking at your comment history, you certainly have an axe to grind for some reason. No idea why you think pasting this over and over on marginally related stories accomplishes anything.
mcguire 12y ago
Have they released a cause of death for Prof. Grimm?
- marvin 12y ago
  It's usually suicide when nothing criminal is suspected and there isn't a statement about natural causes.
- pc2g4d 12y ago
  Also the mention of an inquest seems to suggest something unusual suspected of causing the death. (Your average death from natural causes doesn't lead to an inquest.)
anigbrowl 12y ago
This is not a university anymore but a business with very few up in the hierarchy [..] profiteering and the rest of us are milked for money This is exactly the impression I have of many American universities, which seem to have collectively fallen victim to a sort of 'administrative capture'. A typical example is the recent pay increases of 20% for the University of California chancellors - on salaries in the mid-$300,000s. The regents who voted for this said they intend to boost the pay of faculty and other staff too (who have also been subject to years-long pay freezes), but to me there's something fundamentally wrong with the idea of starting with the people who have the least economic need and are already handsomely compensated. http://www.sfgate.com/education/article/UC-regents-award-20-percent-pay-raises-to-fix-5765312.php http://www.sfgate.com/education/article/UC-regents-award-20-...
- gnarbarian 12y ago
  Nobody gets what they deserve. You only get what you negotiate. (from my dad who is a former engineering professor and now a university administrator).
  - anigbrowl 12y ago
    Don't take it as a dig at your dad, but shouldn't it be part of an administrator's fiduciary duty (at least at the top level) to ensure that people do get what they deserve? The longterm health of the institution surely depends on the quality and availability of the intellectual output as well as the balance sheet.
    - HarryHirsch 12y ago
      Precisely this. The loss of productivity from disaffected employees is difficult to quantify, but at times substantial. And once a culture of disaffectation takes hold it's near impossible to get rid of it. Administration is well advised to be careful in this matter.
  - Fede_V 12y ago
    There was a great Ben Horowitz blog about exactly why this is incredibly poisonous. If you force people to negotiate for every raise instead of having a fair, scheduled process in place, you create a horrendous atmosphere where people feel like they constantly have to nag for a raise.
jboggan 12y ago
The flip side of this (at least at an American research university that I have witnessed first hand) is that professors bringing in large amounts of money with R01 grants can get away with nearly anything they want. This intersects with the other front page discussions about H1B visas and the system of exploitation I've seen with foreign post-docs and grad students. I've seen a foreign research scientist (and dear friend) literally work himself to death securing the grants that kept the money flowing into the lab. There's so much to say about the current state of "research" (which I dare not call science, because seeking to falsify a hypothesis is a terrible way to win a grant) but all explanations are clear if you just follow the money.
- lanaius 12y ago
  Surely that's better than trying to win a grant by proving a known-false hypothesis, which isn't unheard of either.
  - mjcohen 12y ago
    If that known-false hypothesis is supported by wealthy people,this can be very lucrative.
dredmorbius 12y ago
Interesting to note that Imperial College appear to have wiped all record of Dr. Grimm from their website. http://www.imperial.ac.uk/collegedirectory/ http://www.imperial.ac.uk/collegedirectory/ http://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/s.grimm http://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/s.grimm It's heartening to see that some aspects of this institution's operations are apparently well-funded and efficient. (Sarcasm, for the impaired.)
skosuri 12y ago
This sounds nothing like the experience of where I am at (UCLA) in terms of grant pressure. I don't think the UK has tenured positions though.
- buro9 12y ago
  My girlfriend is tenured, it does exist still. It tends to come with a 5 (five) year probation period so that if you do not achieve the grant quota they can bump you down to a teaching role and remove you from all research work. And do not be deceived, all departments in all British universities are like this to some extent. It's just that some places (Imperial) appear to be worse than others, and some environments are more professional and do a better job of hiding the extraordinary politics from students. Stefan Grimm has just given you a peek behind the curtain.
  - crocowhile 12y ago
    It's not all of Imperial. Faculty of Medicine is always the one that gets on the news for this kind of bullying.
anonymousDan 12y ago
I don't understand, don't professors have tenure?
- xaa 12y ago
  Fewer and fewer institutions have tenured professorships these days, for three reasons I can think of: - The pension plans that typically go with long-term employment like tenured professorships are expensive. - Tenure gives professors a protected position and more political power, which is threatening to administrators. - Exactly the reason this article addresses: institutions want to light a fire under people to force them to optimize for the amount of grant money they pull in, rather than for scientific achievement, or (gasp) quality of life. The context of the story suggests that he was not one of the lucky ones, although it is possible that he was, and the university was going to fire him on grounds of some breach of contract or with the argument that he was otherwise breaching his duties as a professor by failing to bring in money.
- jvvw 12y ago
  The UK does not have the same concept of tenure as the US. Professors would have permanent positions and be subject to usual UK employment law.
jszymborski 12y ago
>We had four papers with original data this year so far, in Cell Death and Differentiation, Oncogene, Journal of Cell Science and, as I informed Prof Wilkins this week, one accepted with the EMBO Journal. I was also the editor of a book and wrote two reviews. Doesn’t count. >This leads to a interesting spin to the old saying “publish or perish”. Here it is “publish and perish”. Sad to think that incredible contributions like that are still not enough to be deemed an essential part of a research department. If he was able to publish at that scale with the grants he was getting, then that's not only perfectly alright, but it's damned impressive. Incredibly unfortunate to hear of his passing, even worse that the circumstances aren't clear.
- TheOtherHobbes 12y ago
  Apparently 'academic research' is now entirely a synonym for 'making money from funding.'
  - saraid216 12y ago
    One of the fun things about the price mechanism is that it reduces everything down to its valuation in currency. Ethics, knowledge, emotion. It's terribly convenient.

141 points by pms 12y ago

There's almost no academic pride left in British universities. There may be amongst the staff and students, but not at the top. So disappointing.

pms 12y ago

It seems that the articles is not available any more... Here is a copy: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s5/sh/cb87dfea-7551-46e7-a162-82da078d15b5/a086e1e698c57954d73586da5e6f8f8e https://www.evernote.com/shard/s5/sh/cb87dfea-7551-46e7-a162... Also, here is one of early comments: http://musicfordeckchairs.wordpress.com/2014/12/02/wider-lessons/ http://musicfordeckchairs.wordpress.com/2014/12/02/wider-les...

Create 12y ago

Indeed, this change will only increase the uncertainty for the staff on an LD contract, who by the time they are offered an IC contract will on average be more than 40 years old, quite a long time before knowing whether they can look forward to some long-term stability for themselves and their families. http://cds.cern.ch/journal/CERNBulletin/2014/49/Staff%20Association/1972030?ln=en http://cds.cern.ch/journal/CERNBulletin/2014/49/Staff%20Asso...

hobo_mark 12y ago
Looking at your comment history, you certainly have an axe to grind for some reason. No idea why you think pasting this over and over on marginally related stories accomplishes anything.

mcguire 12y ago

Have they released a cause of death for Prof. Grimm?

marvin 12y ago
It's usually suicide when nothing criminal is suspected and there isn't a statement about natural causes.
pc2g4d 12y ago
Also the mention of an inquest seems to suggest something unusual suspected of causing the death. (Your average death from natural causes doesn't lead to an inquest.)

anigbrowl 12y ago

This is not a university anymore but a business with very few up in the hierarchy [..] profiteering and the rest of us are milked for money This is exactly the impression I have of many American universities, which seem to have collectively fallen victim to a sort of 'administrative capture'. A typical example is the recent pay increases of 20% for the University of California chancellors - on salaries in the mid-$300,000s. The regents who voted for this said they intend to boost the pay of faculty and other staff too (who have also been subject to years-long pay freezes), but to me there's something fundamentally wrong with the idea of starting with the people who have the least economic need and are already handsomely compensated. http://www.sfgate.com/education/article/UC-regents-award-20-percent-pay-raises-to-fix-5765312.php http://www.sfgate.com/education/article/UC-regents-award-20-...

gnarbarian 12y ago
Nobody gets what they deserve. You only get what you negotiate. (from my dad who is a former engineering professor and now a university administrator).
- anigbrowl 12y ago
  Don't take it as a dig at your dad, but shouldn't it be part of an administrator's fiduciary duty (at least at the top level) to ensure that people do get what they deserve? The longterm health of the institution surely depends on the quality and availability of the intellectual output as well as the balance sheet.
  - HarryHirsch 12y ago
    Precisely this. The loss of productivity from disaffected employees is difficult to quantify, but at times substantial. And once a culture of disaffectation takes hold it's near impossible to get rid of it. Administration is well advised to be careful in this matter.
- Fede_V 12y ago
  There was a great Ben Horowitz blog about exactly why this is incredibly poisonous. If you force people to negotiate for every raise instead of having a fair, scheduled process in place, you create a horrendous atmosphere where people feel like they constantly have to nag for a raise.

jboggan 12y ago

The flip side of this (at least at an American research university that I have witnessed first hand) is that professors bringing in large amounts of money with R01 grants can get away with nearly anything they want. This intersects with the other front page discussions about H1B visas and the system of exploitation I've seen with foreign post-docs and grad students. I've seen a foreign research scientist (and dear friend) literally work himself to death securing the grants that kept the money flowing into the lab. There's so much to say about the current state of "research" (which I dare not call science, because seeking to falsify a hypothesis is a terrible way to win a grant) but all explanations are clear if you just follow the money.

lanaius 12y ago
Surely that's better than trying to win a grant by proving a known-false hypothesis, which isn't unheard of either.
- mjcohen 12y ago
  If that known-false hypothesis is supported by wealthy people,this can be very lucrative.

dredmorbius 12y ago

Interesting to note that Imperial College appear to have wiped all record of Dr. Grimm from their website. http://www.imperial.ac.uk/collegedirectory/ http://www.imperial.ac.uk/collegedirectory/ http://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/s.grimm http://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/s.grimm It's heartening to see that some aspects of this institution's operations are apparently well-funded and efficient. (Sarcasm, for the impaired.)

skosuri 12y ago

This sounds nothing like the experience of where I am at (UCLA) in terms of grant pressure. I don't think the UK has tenured positions though.

buro9 12y ago
My girlfriend is tenured, it does exist still. It tends to come with a 5 (five) year probation period so that if you do not achieve the grant quota they can bump you down to a teaching role and remove you from all research work. And do not be deceived, all departments in all British universities are like this to some extent. It's just that some places (Imperial) appear to be worse than others, and some environments are more professional and do a better job of hiding the extraordinary politics from students. Stefan Grimm has just given you a peek behind the curtain.
- crocowhile 12y ago
  It's not all of Imperial. Faculty of Medicine is always the one that gets on the news for this kind of bullying.

anonymousDan 12y ago

I don't understand, don't professors have tenure?

xaa 12y ago
Fewer and fewer institutions have tenured professorships these days, for three reasons I can think of: - The pension plans that typically go with long-term employment like tenured professorships are expensive. - Tenure gives professors a protected position and more political power, which is threatening to administrators. - Exactly the reason this article addresses: institutions want to light a fire under people to force them to optimize for the amount of grant money they pull in, rather than for scientific achievement, or (gasp) quality of life. The context of the story suggests that he was not one of the lucky ones, although it is possible that he was, and the university was going to fire him on grounds of some breach of contract or with the argument that he was otherwise breaching his duties as a professor by failing to bring in money.
jvvw 12y ago
The UK does not have the same concept of tenure as the US. Professors would have permanent positions and be subject to usual UK employment law.

jszymborski 12y ago

>We had four papers with original data this year so far, in Cell Death and Differentiation, Oncogene, Journal of Cell Science and, as I informed Prof Wilkins this week, one accepted with the EMBO Journal. I was also the editor of a book and wrote two reviews. Doesn’t count. >This leads to a interesting spin to the old saying “publish or perish”. Here it is “publish and perish”. Sad to think that incredible contributions like that are still not enough to be deemed an essential part of a research department. If he was able to publish at that scale with the grants he was getting, then that's not only perfectly alright, but it's damned impressive. Incredibly unfortunate to hear of his passing, even worse that the circumstances aren't clear.

TheOtherHobbes 12y ago
Apparently 'academic research' is now entirely a synonym for 'making money from funding.'
- saraid216 12y ago
  One of the fun things about the price mechanism is that it reduces everything down to its valuation in currency. Ethics, knowledge, emotion. It's terribly convenient.