5 ms·

It has been used as a slur by white people at least since the late 19th Century. Many native peoples say it is offensive. Are you calling them hypersensitive? S

by rquantz 12y ago

It has been used as a slur by white people at least since the late 19th Century. Many native peoples say it is offensive. Are you calling them hypersensitive? Speak carefully now.

learc83 12y ago
>Speak carefully now. I really dislike this comment. The implication is that: Only a racist would disagree with me. You're not a racist are you? Speak carefully now.
- hackuser 12y ago
  > The implication is that: Only a racist would disagree with me. rquantz is stating clearly that the word is offensive and implying therefore it's wrong to use it. If that is an issue, I believe it certainly should be raised. What's interesting is that drawing attention to such things is now what is 'politically incorrect'.
  - 001sky 12y ago
    pie rouge, oui monsieur?
  - DanielBMarkham 12y ago
    It _may_ be offensive to some, and not to others. "Niggardly" may be offensive to some, and not to others. We should always be respectful of what might offend folks. But we should also strive to make sure the other folks aren't intellectually handicapped and unable to discern a slander from just a word. If the term has no negative connotation until 40-ish years ago, and all of the negative connotation was fabricated out of thin air? That's at least as notable as the fact that it might offend some. Probably more so. Our mutual desire to live in a friendly society is always at odds with our mutual desire to know what the hell we're talking about. Each of us has an obligation to, in as kind a manner as possible, educate the other about what they might find truly offensive or not if they were better educated. Otherwise civil discourse is just a contest to see who can be offended the most. PC is being a weasel and not having the discussion. PC is not trying to kindly point out that there may be another side to things. PC's definition has not changed.
    - laichzeit0 12y ago
      On the other hand, no one has the right not to be offended. I'm not sure where the assumption that "I'm not allowed to be offended" has somehow become implicit in society, but it's a false assumption. You have no such right.
      - rquantz 12y ago
        While some people may think they have a right not to be offended, it is not necessary for it to be a right in order for us to avoid using words like this, which have been historically used to denigrate a class of people while simultaneously depriving them of life and property. We of the ruling class would do well to keep in mind the historical narratives that helped us solidify our power, and do our best to avoid them in the present. Edit: The downvotes are very instructive. HN: your privilege is showing.
        GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
        If you ask asses not to be asses, turns out they get really mad.
      - hackuser 12y ago
        > On the other hand, no one has the right not to be offended. It has nothing to do with legal rights. We have the right to say anything we want to each other and to our mothers (short of a death threat), but that doesn't mean we should. Throughout the history of humanity, most would say you have a social 'right' (not a legal one) to be treated with respect. That includes not being insulted.
    - RyanMcGreal 12y ago
      > If the term has no negative connotation until 40-ish years ago, and all of the negative connotation was fabricated out of thin air? Don't dismiss the power of the "euphemism treadmill" to change the connotation of a word over time.
    - hackuser 12y ago
      These are merely more disingenuous arguments. Not everything is worth discussing -- especially when all the other person offers is political posturing poorly disguised as rationality. At least if you want to posture, be open about it.
  - Shihan 12y ago
    If we start to avoid every word because someone think it is offensive we better start building our own kind of Neusprech right away.
    - hackuser 12y ago
      > If we start to avoid every word because someone think it is offensive we better start building our own kind of Neusprech right away. Yet that is how humans always have communicated, avoiding saying offensive words; it's a tradition at least as old as the Ten Commandments and probably as old as human culture.
  - PeterisP 12y ago
    Stating that a word is offensive in some context doesn't in any way imply that it's wrong to use it in general. A word - any word - is offensive when and if used to offend someone, but it doesn't make the words as such taboo. Various words such as 'squaw', 'nigger', 'faggot', 'retard', 'raghead', 'chink', 'kike' (did I miss some whole class of slurs? These come from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_pejorative_terms_for_people http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_pejorative_terms_for_p...) are the appropriate words to use in some contexts such as the meta-context of discussing political correctness, or historical literature (e.g. Uncle Tom) or descriptions of names as they were used back then - as in this topic, the original article about naming those submarine-like objects.
    - digi_owl 12y ago
      Yep. Have two friends call each other by "offensive" words and they laugh about it. but if a external party walks up and use the same term, they are liable rip him apart.
- rquantz 12y ago
  Well, I can tell you the implication I intended: saying that a group of people who was hunted to the brink of extinction by the ancestors of the people who now live here are being oversensitive is a dangerous line of thought, which, yes, has the potential to reveal racism. So if you're going to pursue that argument, you better think, and speak, carefully.
  - vezzy-fnord 12y ago
    a group of people who was hunted to the brink of extinction by the ancestors of the people who now live here Human history in a nutshell, really. Just about every country's founding has a history of blood and conquest. They're just pieces of land, after all. Their ownership always has and always will change.

by rquantz 12y ago

It has been used as a slur by white people at least since the late 19th Century. Many native peoples say it is offensive. Are you calling them hypersensitive? Speak carefully now.

learc83 12y ago

>Speak carefully now. I really dislike this comment. The implication is that: Only a racist would disagree with me. You're not a racist are you? Speak carefully now.

hackuser 12y ago
> The implication is that: Only a racist would disagree with me. rquantz is stating clearly that the word is offensive and implying therefore it's wrong to use it. If that is an issue, I believe it certainly should be raised. What's interesting is that drawing attention to such things is now what is 'politically incorrect'.
- 001sky 12y ago
  pie rouge, oui monsieur?
- DanielBMarkham 12y ago
  It _may_ be offensive to some, and not to others. "Niggardly" may be offensive to some, and not to others. We should always be respectful of what might offend folks. But we should also strive to make sure the other folks aren't intellectually handicapped and unable to discern a slander from just a word. If the term has no negative connotation until 40-ish years ago, and all of the negative connotation was fabricated out of thin air? That's at least as notable as the fact that it might offend some. Probably more so. Our mutual desire to live in a friendly society is always at odds with our mutual desire to know what the hell we're talking about. Each of us has an obligation to, in as kind a manner as possible, educate the other about what they might find truly offensive or not if they were better educated. Otherwise civil discourse is just a contest to see who can be offended the most. PC is being a weasel and not having the discussion. PC is not trying to kindly point out that there may be another side to things. PC's definition has not changed.
  - laichzeit0 12y ago
    On the other hand, no one has the right not to be offended. I'm not sure where the assumption that "I'm not allowed to be offended" has somehow become implicit in society, but it's a false assumption. You have no such right.
    - rquantz 12y ago
      While some people may think they have a right not to be offended, it is not necessary for it to be a right in order for us to avoid using words like this, which have been historically used to denigrate a class of people while simultaneously depriving them of life and property. We of the ruling class would do well to keep in mind the historical narratives that helped us solidify our power, and do our best to avoid them in the present. Edit: The downvotes are very instructive. HN: your privilege is showing.
      - GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
        If you ask asses not to be asses, turns out they get really mad.
    - hackuser 12y ago
      > On the other hand, no one has the right not to be offended. It has nothing to do with legal rights. We have the right to say anything we want to each other and to our mothers (short of a death threat), but that doesn't mean we should. Throughout the history of humanity, most would say you have a social 'right' (not a legal one) to be treated with respect. That includes not being insulted.
  - RyanMcGreal 12y ago
    > If the term has no negative connotation until 40-ish years ago, and all of the negative connotation was fabricated out of thin air? Don't dismiss the power of the "euphemism treadmill" to change the connotation of a word over time.
  - hackuser 12y ago
    These are merely more disingenuous arguments. Not everything is worth discussing -- especially when all the other person offers is political posturing poorly disguised as rationality. At least if you want to posture, be open about it.
- Shihan 12y ago
  If we start to avoid every word because someone think it is offensive we better start building our own kind of Neusprech right away.
  - hackuser 12y ago
    > If we start to avoid every word because someone think it is offensive we better start building our own kind of Neusprech right away. Yet that is how humans always have communicated, avoiding saying offensive words; it's a tradition at least as old as the Ten Commandments and probably as old as human culture.
- PeterisP 12y ago
  Stating that a word is offensive in some context doesn't in any way imply that it's wrong to use it in general. A word - any word - is offensive when and if used to offend someone, but it doesn't make the words as such taboo. Various words such as 'squaw', 'nigger', 'faggot', 'retard', 'raghead', 'chink', 'kike' (did I miss some whole class of slurs? These come from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_pejorative_terms_for_people http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_pejorative_terms_for_p...) are the appropriate words to use in some contexts such as the meta-context of discussing political correctness, or historical literature (e.g. Uncle Tom) or descriptions of names as they were used back then - as in this topic, the original article about naming those submarine-like objects.
  - digi_owl 12y ago
    Yep. Have two friends call each other by "offensive" words and they laugh about it. but if a external party walks up and use the same term, they are liable rip him apart.
rquantz 12y ago
Well, I can tell you the implication I intended: saying that a group of people who was hunted to the brink of extinction by the ancestors of the people who now live here are being oversensitive is a dangerous line of thought, which, yes, has the potential to reveal racism. So if you're going to pursue that argument, you better think, and speak, carefully.
- vezzy-fnord 12y ago
  a group of people who was hunted to the brink of extinction by the ancestors of the people who now live here Human history in a nutshell, really. Just about every country's founding has a history of blood and conquest. They're just pieces of land, after all. Their ownership always has and always will change.