9 ms·

I met a composer of minor note (pun intended) who avoided writing major 10ths in the melody, because the ratios in standard tuning were wrong enough to cause ma

I met a composer of minor note (pun intended) who avoided writing major 10ths in the melody, because the ratios in standard tuning were wrong enough to cause major discomfort for him. This interval is about 14 cents sharp, where a cent is defined as 1/1200 of an octave on a logarithmic scale, so 14 cents is about an 0.8% difference in pitch. Curiously, major 3rds did not bother him, even though they have the same ratio problems.

pmiller2 12y ago
To put that in perspective, pretty much anybody can distinguish a pitch difference of 25 cents. People with perfect pitch can distinguish differences of less than 10 cents. Anecdotally, when I was taking lessons with my old cello teacher (who has perfect pitch), if he and I played a note on an open string simultaneously, I could always tell if we were in relative tune by the way the notes interfered. I don't think I'm particularly special in that regard. Edit: Also, once I have one string tuned, I can tell if a neighboring string is correctly tuned because neighboring strings differ by fifths. Again, I don't think I'm particularly special; it's just a matter of learning what to listen for.
- ArkyBeagle 12y ago
  People with relative pitch can also discern < 10 cent differences. 10 cents is pretty obvious in the right context. People with perfect pitch don't need a reference; people with relative pitch do. I play pedal steel, and string 6/G# drops a whacking 10 ten cents when press my A pedal and boy howdy can I hear it - and I don't have perfect pitch, just reasonably good relative pitch.
  - williamcotton 12y ago
    Pedal steel! Do you live in the Bay Area and like playing country music? If so, wanna jam sometime? I've got a rehearsal space in SF.
    - ArkyBeagle 12y ago
      I live in Texas. It's a bit of a haul :)
      - williamcotton 12y ago
        As you could guess it's pretty tough to find pedal steel players around here!
        ArkyBeagle 12y ago
        I would actually think that to be untrue - NorCal has lots of pickers of many instruments. The process of finding musicians is just one of those hard problems. It might be worth joining the (web-based) Steel Guitar Forum. Membership is $5.00 per year. There may also be a local steel guitar association. If you play another instrument, you may be able to volunteer to sit in backing other players at meetings. Also, find The Guy in the area who does steel guitar repair. Good luck in your search!
        scarecrowbob 12y ago
        Here's a second vote for the steel guitar forum-- they are quite helpful. Greets from Fredericksburg :D If it is any consolation to your williamcotton, I'm also having trouble finding a band, but I haven't been at it so long so I usually end up playing bass....
        williamcotton 12y ago
        Oh no doubt the Bay Area has a ton of pickers, but pedal steel players are in short supply. The main scenes tend to be related to the Grateful Dead and other jam bands. There's been a big rise in bluegrass and country inspired jam bands as of late although they're mostly living in the foothills or Tahoe. Sweetwater in Mill Valley, Terrapin Crossroads in San Rafael, and Ashkenaz in Berkeley have a healthy amount of traditional American string players but I'm telling you, almost no one plays pedal steel. There's a few guys like Dan Lebowitz who are just phenomenal but they've all got their plates full. San Francisco's got Amnesia and Veracocha and a few other smaller venues but I'd gotta say that Phil Lesh's Terrapin Crossroads is what the scene revolves around in the Bay Area. I have no problem finding fiddle, banjo, or mandolin players! Just pedal steel!
tprice7 12y ago
It makes sense that major 3rds didn't bother him. With major tenths the fifth harmonic of the lower note is beating against the second harmonic of the upper note. With major thirds it is beating against the fourth harmonic of the upper note. The second harmonic is generally louder than the fourth, and so the effect is more noticeable.
juliangregorian 12y ago
But between neighboring notes (half-steps) it would be a 14% difference, which is noticeable to almost anyone with ears.

pmiller2 12y ago

To put that in perspective, pretty much anybody can distinguish a pitch difference of 25 cents. People with perfect pitch can distinguish differences of less than 10 cents. Anecdotally, when I was taking lessons with my old cello teacher (who has perfect pitch), if he and I played a note on an open string simultaneously, I could always tell if we were in relative tune by the way the notes interfered. I don't think I'm particularly special in that regard. Edit: Also, once I have one string tuned, I can tell if a neighboring string is correctly tuned because neighboring strings differ by fifths. Again, I don't think I'm particularly special; it's just a matter of learning what to listen for.

ArkyBeagle 12y ago
People with relative pitch can also discern < 10 cent differences. 10 cents is pretty obvious in the right context. People with perfect pitch don't need a reference; people with relative pitch do. I play pedal steel, and string 6/G# drops a whacking 10 ten cents when press my A pedal and boy howdy can I hear it - and I don't have perfect pitch, just reasonably good relative pitch.
- williamcotton 12y ago
  Pedal steel! Do you live in the Bay Area and like playing country music? If so, wanna jam sometime? I've got a rehearsal space in SF.
  - ArkyBeagle 12y ago
    I live in Texas. It's a bit of a haul :)
    - williamcotton 12y ago
      As you could guess it's pretty tough to find pedal steel players around here!
      - ArkyBeagle 12y ago
        I would actually think that to be untrue - NorCal has lots of pickers of many instruments. The process of finding musicians is just one of those hard problems. It might be worth joining the (web-based) Steel Guitar Forum. Membership is $5.00 per year. There may also be a local steel guitar association. If you play another instrument, you may be able to volunteer to sit in backing other players at meetings. Also, find The Guy in the area who does steel guitar repair. Good luck in your search!
        scarecrowbob 12y ago
        Here's a second vote for the steel guitar forum-- they are quite helpful. Greets from Fredericksburg :D If it is any consolation to your williamcotton, I'm also having trouble finding a band, but I haven't been at it so long so I usually end up playing bass....
        williamcotton 12y ago
        Oh no doubt the Bay Area has a ton of pickers, but pedal steel players are in short supply. The main scenes tend to be related to the Grateful Dead and other jam bands. There's been a big rise in bluegrass and country inspired jam bands as of late although they're mostly living in the foothills or Tahoe. Sweetwater in Mill Valley, Terrapin Crossroads in San Rafael, and Ashkenaz in Berkeley have a healthy amount of traditional American string players but I'm telling you, almost no one plays pedal steel. There's a few guys like Dan Lebowitz who are just phenomenal but they've all got their plates full. San Francisco's got Amnesia and Veracocha and a few other smaller venues but I'd gotta say that Phil Lesh's Terrapin Crossroads is what the scene revolves around in the Bay Area. I have no problem finding fiddle, banjo, or mandolin players! Just pedal steel!

tprice7 12y ago

It makes sense that major 3rds didn't bother him. With major tenths the fifth harmonic of the lower note is beating against the second harmonic of the upper note. With major thirds it is beating against the fourth harmonic of the upper note. The second harmonic is generally louder than the fourth, and so the effect is more noticeable.

juliangregorian 12y ago

But between neighboring notes (half-steps) it would be a 14% difference, which is noticeable to almost anyone with ears.