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Agreed. Whenever there's a comparison of our pathetic speeds with those in Korea/Japan, people claim "the US is a huge country", etc. However, San Francisco's d

Agreed. Whenever there's a comparison of our pathetic speeds with those in Korea/Japan, people claim "the US is a huge country", etc. However, San Francisco's density (6600/km^2) is higher than that of Tokyo (6000/km^2); why doesn't SF have FTTH?

baddox 12y ago
Note that both points can be true. Local politics can screw over SF Internet, and it can be more difficult to wire up a larger sparser country.
underwires 12y ago
Tokyo's density is more like 8800/km^2
- delinka 12y ago
  Wikipedia disagrees. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo#cite_ref-population_3-0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo#cite_ref-population_3-0
ollebro 12y ago
The denstity where I live is about 20/km^2. Me and all my neighbours have fiber and 1Gbit cost about 30$ a month. Sweden is spending a lot of money digging down fiber for everyone in Sweden right now.
jpatokal 12y ago
Comparisons to Tokyo are not necessarily instructive, since Tōkyō-to includes a vast swathe of essentially uninhabited mountains. Population density in the central 23 wards, which is what people usually mean when they say "Tokyo", is 14,485/km2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_wards_of_Tokyo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_wards_of_Tokyo
cthalupa 12y ago
Where is the majority of Japanese internet traffic going? Where is the majority of San Fransiscan internet traffic going? There's more than just population density to take into account. It makes a big difference when you don't need nearly as much long haul backbone capacity because almost all of the destinations for the traffic are close to the subscribers.
- pixl97 12y ago
  No, not really. The US has had a massive amount of backhaul fiber, huge amounts of it stayed dark for years. That in turn dropped transit prices to almost nothing. Bandwidth at data centers and other places near transit hubs is very cheap. The U.S. problem is a last mile problem.
- kalleboo 12y ago
  In my experience (just shopping around for high-bandwidth hosting, including looking at regional pricing of CDNs), backhaul is way cheaper in the US than anywhere else, including Europe and Asia.
icantthinkofone 12y ago
San Francisco is not the US and, here in the St. Louis area, we all get 100Mb.

baddox 12y ago

Note that both points can be true. Local politics can screw over SF Internet, and it can be more difficult to wire up a larger sparser country.

underwires 12y ago

Tokyo's density is more like 8800/km^2

delinka 12y ago
Wikipedia disagrees. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo#cite_ref-population_3-0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo#cite_ref-population_3-0

ollebro 12y ago

The denstity where I live is about 20/km^2. Me and all my neighbours have fiber and 1Gbit cost about 30$ a month. Sweden is spending a lot of money digging down fiber for everyone in Sweden right now.

jpatokal 12y ago

Comparisons to Tokyo are not necessarily instructive, since Tōkyō-to includes a vast swathe of essentially uninhabited mountains. Population density in the central 23 wards, which is what people usually mean when they say "Tokyo", is 14,485/km2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_wards_of_Tokyo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_wards_of_Tokyo

cthalupa 12y ago

Where is the majority of Japanese internet traffic going? Where is the majority of San Fransiscan internet traffic going? There's more than just population density to take into account. It makes a big difference when you don't need nearly as much long haul backbone capacity because almost all of the destinations for the traffic are close to the subscribers.

pixl97 12y ago
No, not really. The US has had a massive amount of backhaul fiber, huge amounts of it stayed dark for years. That in turn dropped transit prices to almost nothing. Bandwidth at data centers and other places near transit hubs is very cheap. The U.S. problem is a last mile problem.
kalleboo 12y ago
In my experience (just shopping around for high-bandwidth hosting, including looking at regional pricing of CDNs), backhaul is way cheaper in the US than anywhere else, including Europe and Asia.

icantthinkofone 12y ago

San Francisco is not the US and, here in the St. Louis area, we all get 100Mb.