3 ms·

Bacteriophage phi X174 DNA a message from extraterrestrial intelligence? (1979)

32 points by GuiA 12y ago

Bud 12y ago
From the abstract: "No significant patterns have been observed". So I'd say the answer is "no".
- rustyconover 12y ago
  It could be that we haven't detected the interleaved frames and the audio subcarrier. or Maybe we're just not thinking like a "Vega"n would[1]. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SbKE_U4b7U&spfreload=10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SbKE_U4b7U&spfreload=10
gordaco 12y ago
I find the premise offensive. It's exactly the same as evolution-denying creationists: the idea that something is so complex that it couldn't be created by evolution because that would imply some degree of randomness, or whatever misunderstanding.
- IvyMike 12y ago
  I think the idea is that a message from aliens would need a carrier with sufficient complexity and durability. A replicating molecule like DNA or RNA might fit the bill, so they take a look.
- psychometry 12y ago
  The scientific method has no regard for which premises you or anyone else find offensive. If the research is sound, both the question and the results are worthy of attention.
tacos 12y ago
When a headline ends with a question mark the answer is always no.
psychometry 12y ago
If there's a way to access this article from the link you submitted, I'm not seeing it. If there isn't a way, I wonder why you submitted it at all.
adamnemecek 12y ago
you should add "(1979)" to the title.
- GuiA 12y ago
  I tried, but looks like the max field limit was hit.
zwentz 12y ago
You know what would be interesting? Doing this on our own DNA. What if that 0.1% difference between us and chimpanzees, was caused by such a capsule injected into a chimp by an extraterrestrial intelligence, and our key to interstellar travel, Dyson sphere, etc. has been hiding within us all along? Would make a cool movie.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
hoodoof 12y ago
I didn't click on the link but I'm pretty sure the answer is "No".
egmracer 12y ago
It's an interesting premise but one that's almost impossible to verify. DNA would inevitably evolve in the billions of years of adaptation, rendering the message incomprehensible. Even with all relevant techniques (probability analysis, error correcting codes, ...), it's at best guess work. Despite the problems with implementation, it's still a very interesting idea that has a few good reasons supporting its logic. Any advanced life form that reaches a new planet will almost certainly analyze the planet for life and it's genetic makeup. I'm not sure we'll be able to validate or completely dismiss the idea until we explore other planets.
- card 12y ago
  An interesting followup study would be to explore techniques of encoding information in DNA to reduce the error rate over generations. Could shed some light on how long a message would remain comprehensible.
GuiA 12y ago
To all the comments about how the answer is no: I agree, and the reason I posted this is not because of the answer to the question, but because the premise and reasoning are very interesting to read. Also, I got this link in a comment in the following thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8675078 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8675078. Thanks `jonmrodriguez!
arthurcolle 12y ago
Here is the link to the actual journal article. Absolutely disgusting that it is so obfuscated and so difficult to acquire. Information is free if we all help make it available to everyone: https://mega.co.nz/#!O1ok1L4T!e06uUlxvYkRf0JVgpf1dvnQWQrhlSMs8w29ZP8jRDlE https://mega.co.nz/#!O1ok1L4T!e06uUlxvYkRf0JVgpf1dvnQWQrhlSM...
jerryhuang100 12y ago
The funny part of the 1979 paper is that its Fig 3 of NA codes just looks like QR code of 2014: http://i.imgur.com/AR0OhAF.png http://i.imgur.com/AR0OhAF.png

32 points by GuiA 12y ago

Bud 12y ago

From the abstract: "No significant patterns have been observed". So I'd say the answer is "no".

rustyconover 12y ago
It could be that we haven't detected the interleaved frames and the audio subcarrier. or Maybe we're just not thinking like a "Vega"n would[1]. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SbKE_U4b7U&spfreload=10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SbKE_U4b7U&spfreload=10

gordaco 12y ago

I find the premise offensive. It's exactly the same as evolution-denying creationists: the idea that something is so complex that it couldn't be created by evolution because that would imply some degree of randomness, or whatever misunderstanding.

IvyMike 12y ago
I think the idea is that a message from aliens would need a carrier with sufficient complexity and durability. A replicating molecule like DNA or RNA might fit the bill, so they take a look.
psychometry 12y ago
The scientific method has no regard for which premises you or anyone else find offensive. If the research is sound, both the question and the results are worthy of attention.

tacos 12y ago

When a headline ends with a question mark the answer is always no.

psychometry 12y ago

If there's a way to access this article from the link you submitted, I'm not seeing it. If there isn't a way, I wonder why you submitted it at all.

adamnemecek 12y ago

you should add "(1979)" to the title.

GuiA 12y ago
I tried, but looks like the max field limit was hit.

zwentz 12y ago

You know what would be interesting? Doing this on our own DNA. What if that 0.1% difference between us and chimpanzees, was caused by such a capsule injected into a chimp by an extraterrestrial intelligence, and our key to interstellar travel, Dyson sphere, etc. has been hiding within us all along? Would make a cool movie.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

hoodoof 12y ago

I didn't click on the link but I'm pretty sure the answer is "No".

egmracer 12y ago

It's an interesting premise but one that's almost impossible to verify. DNA would inevitably evolve in the billions of years of adaptation, rendering the message incomprehensible. Even with all relevant techniques (probability analysis, error correcting codes, ...), it's at best guess work. Despite the problems with implementation, it's still a very interesting idea that has a few good reasons supporting its logic. Any advanced life form that reaches a new planet will almost certainly analyze the planet for life and it's genetic makeup. I'm not sure we'll be able to validate or completely dismiss the idea until we explore other planets.

card 12y ago
An interesting followup study would be to explore techniques of encoding information in DNA to reduce the error rate over generations. Could shed some light on how long a message would remain comprehensible.

GuiA 12y ago

To all the comments about how the answer is no: I agree, and the reason I posted this is not because of the answer to the question, but because the premise and reasoning are very interesting to read. Also, I got this link in a comment in the following thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8675078 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8675078. Thanks `jonmrodriguez!

arthurcolle 12y ago

Here is the link to the actual journal article. Absolutely disgusting that it is so obfuscated and so difficult to acquire. Information is free if we all help make it available to everyone: https://mega.co.nz/#!O1ok1L4T!e06uUlxvYkRf0JVgpf1dvnQWQrhlSMs8w29ZP8jRDlE https://mega.co.nz/#!O1ok1L4T!e06uUlxvYkRf0JVgpf1dvnQWQrhlSM...

jerryhuang100 12y ago

The funny part of the 1979 paper is that its Fig 3 of NA codes just looks like QR code of 2014: http://i.imgur.com/AR0OhAF.png http://i.imgur.com/AR0OhAF.png