5 ms·

Why not just use Groovy for everything instead of java ?

by minthd 12y ago

sgt 12y ago
Speaking of - how is Groovy doing these days? I looked at the Groovy webpage and I saw ads splattered here and there - never a good sign, I also see that the mailing lists are pretty quiet. Is Groovy dying?
- einrealist 12y ago
  Whether Groovy is dying depends on how other languages do (like Javascript or JRuby). Groovy has found its niches and will not die soon. For instance, Gradle is built around it or Jetbrains is using it building IDEs like IntelliJ. The ads are probably helping to finance some of the codehaus infrastructure.
  - sgt 12y ago
    A new niche might be: Groovy on Android http://www.infoq.com/news/2014/06/groovy-android http://www.infoq.com/news/2014/06/groovy-android
- frowaway001 12y ago
  I'd say not too good. Of course there are those two projects everyone mentions, Grails and Gradle, but I would say it's more correct to describe them as the only two niches where Groovy is actually used a bit, it's not like Gradle and Grails are just "flagship products" of a greater ecosystem. For both, there are already better replacemens available, so I don't think they will grow much in the future.
  - atomi 12y ago
    What do you replace Gradle with?
    - frowaway001 12y ago
      I'm extremely happy with SBT.
  - vorg 12y ago
    It's a stretch to say that Gradle actually uses Groovy. Groovy 1.7 added a "DSL" into its parser whereby we could omit parentheses in function calls. Gradle uses this facility for its CSS-style syntax. In theory, we can drop out of the DSL to add Groovy code (as you can with Leinengen to add Clojure code, etc etc) but in practise virtually no-one does that. I've checked the Gradle build scripts for some large open source projects, even Groovy's own build scripts, and nowhere have I seen anything other than the DSL syntax used. Gradle 2 brought the facility where you could configure a build using any JVM language via an API, and now Java 8 has lambdas I suspect this facility will get used more, and Gradle might even replace Groovy with a custom lightweight DSL for builds not requiring extra programming.
- allengeorge 12y ago
  They're moving to a new site: http://beta.groovy-lang.org/ http://beta.groovy-lang.org/
  - vorg 12y ago
    The site at groovy.codehaus.org doesn't mention anything about the new site (actually www.groovy-lang.org). Until it does the new site is unofficial and just one of the 5 despots at Codehaus trying to grab control of the product away from the other 4 despots there. That despot has tried other tricks like soliciting for subscribers to his weekly "news mailout" which is mainly links to tweets mentioning Groovy.
    - allengeorge 12y ago
      Mmm. I got this from Guillaume Laforge's blog: http://glaforge.appspot.com/article/a-new-groovy-website-in-beta http://glaforge.appspot.com/article/a-new-groovy-website-in-... He's one of the core groovy developers - unless he's one of those despots you're talking about?
      - vorg 12y ago
        If an old site for anything (here, groovy.codehaus.org) doesn't mention it's moving to a new site (here, www.groovy-lang.org) then I question what's going on. As for your link, it's a link to a personal blog and not an article on the Codehaus Groovy site so it's just as unofficial as the supposed new site for Groovy.
jdbernard 12y ago
That's what I do. It has the added benefit that anything you do to improve using Groovy can be leveraged with plain Java too.
- vorg 12y ago
  As also can Clojure though with less bugs.
lmm 12y ago
Because type safety is actually really valuable? /uses Scala for everything, from scripts to backend. Groovy usually translates 1:1 into Scala, but without sacrificing type safety.
- minthd 12y ago
  In current version of Groovy you can mix static and dynamic typing in different sections of code by telling the compiler what are your preference.
  - frowaway001 12y ago
    Why would you ever _not_ want typechecking?
    - cheepin 12y ago
      Static typing comes with benefits and costs. If you don't want to pay the costs and can forego the benefits, dynamic typing is fine.
    - paulddraper 12y ago
      Generally people that don't like explaining what they mean to a computer.
      - frowaway001 12y ago
        If your type system requires explaining things to a computer, your type system sucks, not static typing. I use types because the compiler can explain things to me.
  - lmm 12y ago
    Up to a point - I found the static support was quite buggy and I got the impression not many people were actually using it. Has it improved in the last few years?
einrealist 12y ago
There are not many technical reasons for not to do that (like the speed of invokedynamic). It has been a consideration for at least one project I was part in.

Why not just use Groovy for everything instead of java ?

by minthd 12y ago

Why not just use Groovy for everything instead of java ?

sgt 12y ago

Speaking of - how is Groovy doing these days? I looked at the Groovy webpage and I saw ads splattered here and there - never a good sign, I also see that the mailing lists are pretty quiet. Is Groovy dying?

einrealist 12y ago
Whether Groovy is dying depends on how other languages do (like Javascript or JRuby). Groovy has found its niches and will not die soon. For instance, Gradle is built around it or Jetbrains is using it building IDEs like IntelliJ. The ads are probably helping to finance some of the codehaus infrastructure.
- sgt 12y ago
  A new niche might be: Groovy on Android http://www.infoq.com/news/2014/06/groovy-android http://www.infoq.com/news/2014/06/groovy-android
frowaway001 12y ago
I'd say not too good. Of course there are those two projects everyone mentions, Grails and Gradle, but I would say it's more correct to describe them as the only two niches where Groovy is actually used a bit, it's not like Gradle and Grails are just "flagship products" of a greater ecosystem. For both, there are already better replacemens available, so I don't think they will grow much in the future.
- atomi 12y ago
  What do you replace Gradle with?
  - frowaway001 12y ago
    I'm extremely happy with SBT.
- vorg 12y ago
  It's a stretch to say that Gradle actually uses Groovy. Groovy 1.7 added a "DSL" into its parser whereby we could omit parentheses in function calls. Gradle uses this facility for its CSS-style syntax. In theory, we can drop out of the DSL to add Groovy code (as you can with Leinengen to add Clojure code, etc etc) but in practise virtually no-one does that. I've checked the Gradle build scripts for some large open source projects, even Groovy's own build scripts, and nowhere have I seen anything other than the DSL syntax used. Gradle 2 brought the facility where you could configure a build using any JVM language via an API, and now Java 8 has lambdas I suspect this facility will get used more, and Gradle might even replace Groovy with a custom lightweight DSL for builds not requiring extra programming.
allengeorge 12y ago
They're moving to a new site: http://beta.groovy-lang.org/ http://beta.groovy-lang.org/
- vorg 12y ago
  The site at groovy.codehaus.org doesn't mention anything about the new site (actually www.groovy-lang.org). Until it does the new site is unofficial and just one of the 5 despots at Codehaus trying to grab control of the product away from the other 4 despots there. That despot has tried other tricks like soliciting for subscribers to his weekly "news mailout" which is mainly links to tweets mentioning Groovy.
  - allengeorge 12y ago
    Mmm. I got this from Guillaume Laforge's blog: http://glaforge.appspot.com/article/a-new-groovy-website-in-beta http://glaforge.appspot.com/article/a-new-groovy-website-in-... He's one of the core groovy developers - unless he's one of those despots you're talking about?
    - vorg 12y ago
      If an old site for anything (here, groovy.codehaus.org) doesn't mention it's moving to a new site (here, www.groovy-lang.org) then I question what's going on. As for your link, it's a link to a personal blog and not an article on the Codehaus Groovy site so it's just as unofficial as the supposed new site for Groovy.

jdbernard 12y ago

That's what I do. It has the added benefit that anything you do to improve using Groovy can be leveraged with plain Java too.

vorg 12y ago
As also can Clojure though with less bugs.

lmm 12y ago

Because type safety is actually really valuable? /uses Scala for everything, from scripts to backend. Groovy usually translates 1:1 into Scala, but without sacrificing type safety.

minthd 12y ago
In current version of Groovy you can mix static and dynamic typing in different sections of code by telling the compiler what are your preference.
- frowaway001 12y ago
  Why would you ever _not_ want typechecking?
  - cheepin 12y ago
    Static typing comes with benefits and costs. If you don't want to pay the costs and can forego the benefits, dynamic typing is fine.
  - paulddraper 12y ago
    Generally people that don't like explaining what they mean to a computer.
    - frowaway001 12y ago
      If your type system requires explaining things to a computer, your type system sucks, not static typing. I use types because the compiler can explain things to me.
- lmm 12y ago
  Up to a point - I found the static support was quite buggy and I got the impression not many people were actually using it. Has it improved in the last few years?

einrealist 12y ago

There are not many technical reasons for not to do that (like the speed of invokedynamic). It has been a consideration for at least one project I was part in.