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You have to admit that for coders, the joy of writing helps a lot for job satisfaction. I write both Java and Python (for very different applications) and I jus

You have to admit that for coders, the joy of writing helps a lot for job satisfaction. I write both Java and Python (for very different applications) and I just always feel like Java makes it hard to write anything elegant almost on purpose. The proliferation of huge frameworks and FactoryFactories clearly doesn't help. I think you can underestimate the value in actually enjoying writing - I'm just more motivated every day I can write elegant python code. Conversely every day I spend fighting Java for an elegant solution and winding up inevitably with something a bit half-arsed because of some limitation in the language I just feel grumpy.

Terr_ 12y ago
The problem is that one guys "Joy Of Writing" rapidly becomes the next guy's "Torture Of Reading", and with enough of a time-interval those two can be the same person.
- mangecoeur 12y ago
  I feel Python is good in this regard compared to other interpreted languages. There's a lot of emphasis on "Pythonic" style which you tend to pick up as you learn, so people are discouraged from excess magic (Explicit is better than implicit) and the syntax at the very least lends itself to sane formatting (especially with PEP8). Personally I've rarely had any true WTF moments reading either my own code or code from (reputable) OSS projects.
pimlottc 12y ago
I'm of two minds on this. Certainly it's important people find enjoyment in the day-to-day reality of their job. Unhappy people don't write good code in any language. But I honestly do thing people can have too much fun writing code. We've all fallen in love with something we've written even though it might not have been the simplest or most understandable or idiomatically sound. Writing Python is fun. But that joy can cloud your judgement, and if we are to consider ourselves professional, we have to look beyond just that and make decisions based on our employers best interest. Sometimes that might be Python, but in my experience, quite often that's boring old Java.
aikah 12y ago
With dependency injection you dont need factories.IoC containers will make write you way less code.And they scale better.
- mangecoeur 12y ago
  You might not need factories, but they get foisted on you anyway. But the proliferation of "programming patterns" in java I think is symptomatic of a basic user-unfriendliness in the language. Off the top of my head I can think of three Patterns just for creating objects (Factories, DI, Builders) - the fact that these are even required, that object creation isn't self evident, suggests there's something wrong in the language design

Terr_ 12y ago

The problem is that one guys "Joy Of Writing" rapidly becomes the next guy's "Torture Of Reading", and with enough of a time-interval those two can be the same person.

mangecoeur 12y ago
I feel Python is good in this regard compared to other interpreted languages. There's a lot of emphasis on "Pythonic" style which you tend to pick up as you learn, so people are discouraged from excess magic (Explicit is better than implicit) and the syntax at the very least lends itself to sane formatting (especially with PEP8). Personally I've rarely had any true WTF moments reading either my own code or code from (reputable) OSS projects.

pimlottc 12y ago

I'm of two minds on this. Certainly it's important people find enjoyment in the day-to-day reality of their job. Unhappy people don't write good code in any language. But I honestly do thing people can have too much fun writing code. We've all fallen in love with something we've written even though it might not have been the simplest or most understandable or idiomatically sound. Writing Python is fun. But that joy can cloud your judgement, and if we are to consider ourselves professional, we have to look beyond just that and make decisions based on our employers best interest. Sometimes that might be Python, but in my experience, quite often that's boring old Java.

aikah 12y ago

With dependency injection you dont need factories.IoC containers will make write you way less code.And they scale better.

mangecoeur 12y ago
You might not need factories, but they get foisted on you anyway. But the proliferation of "programming patterns" in java I think is symptomatic of a basic user-unfriendliness in the language. Off the top of my head I can think of three Patterns just for creating objects (Factories, DI, Builders) - the fact that these are even required, that object creation isn't self evident, suggests there's something wrong in the language design