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There's no shortage of good libraries for Python. He just chose to not learn about them.

by andor 12y ago

pjmlp 12y ago
And all the fast ones aren't implemented in Python....
- lmm 12y ago
  So what? For most problems there are fast, well-designed libraries available with idiomatic python interfaces; why would you care about the implementation details?
  - BuckRogers 12y ago
    Note, this is coming from the same guy who programs in x, which was also implemented in C(++). Like the JVM, CLR ad nauseum. :)
    - pjmlp 12y ago
      Do you know that there are JVM and CLR meta-circular implementations, right? And that the reference implementations get less C++ code with each release.
  - pjmlp 12y ago
    Because the whole point of the OP is being able to use the same language for the whole stack.
    - lmm 12y ago
      You are. Sure you call libraries that aren't written in Python, but that seems just as irrelevant as the fact that the JVM is written in C.
      - pjmlp 12y ago
        Which JVM?! There isn't such thing as "The JVM", there is the JVM standard, reference implementations and certified JVMs. Oracle has JVMs implemented in a mix of C, C++ and Java, up to pure Java (Maxime), just like many other JVM vendors and research institutes also do. Even Oracle is playing with the idea of using the Maxime JVM, now Graal, to eventually replace Hotspot. The Java 7 and Java 8 reference implementation saw a lot of C++ code being replaced by Java code, thanks to new JIT intrinsics. The idea that C is the only way to implement VMs needs to die.
        lmm 12y ago
        > Which JVM?! The Oracle one, aka the one production Java code is usually deployed on. I am aware of several of those research projects but they're, well, research projects. Even if the JVM were fully implemented in Java, the OS most likely wouldn't be. Even if it were, the CPU microcode almost certainly wouldn't be. At some point your Java will be running on something not-Java, even if that thing is "logic gates". But it doesn't matter - just as the implementation language of the libraries you use in Python doesn't matter.
        pjmlp 12y ago
        There are lots of production JVMs, they aren't research projects. - Oracle JVM - Oracle J/Rockit - Websphere JVM - OS/400 JVM - HP-UX JVM - Aix JVM - Aonix Perc JVM - ... > But it doesn't matter - just as the implementation language of the libraries you use in Python doesn't matter. If I can achieve the same execution speed with pure Python, then yes it doesn't matter. However, that isn't the case.
edwinnathaniel 12y ago
Some good, some aren't, some used to not work with Python 3, some still don't work with Python 3, some reinvent the wheel died due to not being popular (sql object, pylon, turbogears), some looked relic and not worth to learn ( plone, zope). Like the article said, it's fun and quick to hack in Python but just ain't everybody taste... especially seeing the age and the quality of some of those libraries.

There's no shortage of good libraries for Python. He just chose to not learn about them.

by andor 12y ago

There's no shortage of good libraries for Python. He just chose to not learn about them.

pjmlp 12y ago

And all the fast ones aren't implemented in Python....

lmm 12y ago
So what? For most problems there are fast, well-designed libraries available with idiomatic python interfaces; why would you care about the implementation details?
- BuckRogers 12y ago
  Note, this is coming from the same guy who programs in x, which was also implemented in C(++). Like the JVM, CLR ad nauseum. :)
  - pjmlp 12y ago
    Do you know that there are JVM and CLR meta-circular implementations, right? And that the reference implementations get less C++ code with each release.
- pjmlp 12y ago
  Because the whole point of the OP is being able to use the same language for the whole stack.
  - lmm 12y ago
    You are. Sure you call libraries that aren't written in Python, but that seems just as irrelevant as the fact that the JVM is written in C.
    - pjmlp 12y ago
      Which JVM?! There isn't such thing as "The JVM", there is the JVM standard, reference implementations and certified JVMs. Oracle has JVMs implemented in a mix of C, C++ and Java, up to pure Java (Maxime), just like many other JVM vendors and research institutes also do. Even Oracle is playing with the idea of using the Maxime JVM, now Graal, to eventually replace Hotspot. The Java 7 and Java 8 reference implementation saw a lot of C++ code being replaced by Java code, thanks to new JIT intrinsics. The idea that C is the only way to implement VMs needs to die.
      - lmm 12y ago
        > Which JVM?! The Oracle one, aka the one production Java code is usually deployed on. I am aware of several of those research projects but they're, well, research projects. Even if the JVM were fully implemented in Java, the OS most likely wouldn't be. Even if it were, the CPU microcode almost certainly wouldn't be. At some point your Java will be running on something not-Java, even if that thing is "logic gates". But it doesn't matter - just as the implementation language of the libraries you use in Python doesn't matter.
        pjmlp 12y ago
        There are lots of production JVMs, they aren't research projects. - Oracle JVM - Oracle J/Rockit - Websphere JVM - OS/400 JVM - HP-UX JVM - Aix JVM - Aonix Perc JVM - ... > But it doesn't matter - just as the implementation language of the libraries you use in Python doesn't matter. If I can achieve the same execution speed with pure Python, then yes it doesn't matter. However, that isn't the case.

edwinnathaniel 12y ago

Some good, some aren't, some used to not work with Python 3, some still don't work with Python 3, some reinvent the wheel died due to not being popular (sql object, pylon, turbogears), some looked relic and not worth to learn ( plone, zope). Like the article said, it's fun and quick to hack in Python but just ain't everybody taste... especially seeing the age and the quality of some of those libraries.