7 ms·

RethinkDB looking for a technical cofounder

61 points by andreyf 17y ago

falsestprophet 17y ago
- You're not afraid of modifying Linux kernel source code. - You're not afraid of modifying MySQL source code. The truth is I am afraid of both of these things.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
  - antonovka 17y ago
    It's not that I don't like to solve problems, it's that Linux and MySQL code bases bring unnecessary problems to the table that I have no interest in solving.
    - ajross 17y ago
      Flamebait. You have cleaner and better examples of a world-class kernel and database engine? You want to do rocket surgery, you gotta bend a few scalpels.
      - coffeemug 17y ago
        FreeBSD is generally considered to be a cleaner and better example of world-class kernel. MySQL codebase is OK, but isn't fantastic. In general, all mature large systems come with a can of worms, and it takes a certain kind of person to deal with that. Legacy code is always less fun than a blank slate, unless you have certain mindset. Fortunately, we get to deal with both world-class legacy systems, and write some blank slate code. We get the best of both worlds :)
- gcheong 17y ago
  Fear of the unknown or once bitten twice shy?
- cookiecaper 17y ago
  Yeah, I think that's their "nice" way of asking for someone with significant experience there. The problem is that you only want someone with significant experience, not just someone who is "unafraid" of it, because any worthy developer unversed in those projects would be scared to just jump in and start changing random things if the work is ever going to be used. Both Linux and MySQL are huge, complex systems and if you want someone who can immediately start making usable changes to those systems, you should probably recruit on their respective mailing lists. Developers running in to huge things like Linux and MySQL ad-hoc and making changes causes lots of problems. See Debian's SSH-certificate problem from a year or so back for just one immediate example. As with any complex platform, it takes a lot of tinkering and experience to know what flies and what doesn't. Those dudes should change their ad away from the cute thing to the serious thing unless they plan on allowing the hire time to figure these things out.
  - coffeemug 17y ago
    That's not true. While we'd prefer someone with experience in these areas, when we say "you're not afraid" we really mean "you're not afraid". Hacking Linux really isn't that hard. I implemented two kernel-level projects - a stackable filesystem that gives you an assurance your files haven't been tempered with, and an "object orientation" system that lets processes modify and inherit their syscall vectors. Each project took about four days and I never looked at the kernel code before. I had pretty good access to a Linux expert who pointed me in the right direction, but I didn't ask that many questions. It wasn't the caliber of code that would make it into vanilla, but it was very useable. The idea that hacking the Linux kernel requires superhuman abilities is a huge misconception. I can assure you that I'm as far away from being a genius as anyone. If I could do it, any reasonably competent software developer can. And the complexity of MySQL codebase pales in comparison to Linux. We want some degree of experience hacking high performance low level systems, but we care about competency, determination, and ability to ship working code far more than experience in any specific area. It's Linux and MySQL today, but it could be FreeBSD and Postgres tomorrow.
    - cookiecaper 17y ago
      I never said it required "superhuman abilities". It just requires some familiarity, obviously depending on how deep you want to go. The trend of developers running in guns blazing and changing a complex codebase they don't understand is bad. I'm glad your stuff was personally usable, but there's a difference between something that's adequate for personal use and something that you can distribute as part of your new _database engine_. That stuff requires serious stability and complex programs are complex and changes can often have unforeseen consequences even for devs already trained in these large projects. I'm not saying one can't learn, but I am saying that most good developers who haven't changed the source code for ginormous things like MySQL and Linux _are_ scared to take a new job where they're expected to be able to make meaningful and/or significant changes to any ginormous thing they don't have much familiarity changing, especially if you want to changes that are immediately deployable in your project. If you're going to give the dudes time to get used to MySQL and Linux and tinker and discuss adequately, then that's fine. If not, and you expect them to go from 0 to "usable filesystem" in 4 days, you should probably be more specific in your ad.
jmtame 17y ago
The founders are awesome =] This is a group that you'd want to work with, besides the cool technology challenges and perks of being early in a funded start up.
cperciva 17y ago
Can we please stop this nonsense about "cofounders" joining a company several months after it is founded? What's wrong with calling a spade a spade and saying "RethinkDB looking for 1st employee"?
- zaidf 17y ago
  Usually expectations, pay and equity.
  - cperciva 17y ago
    Sounds to me like people have unreasonable expectations. I, for one, don't expect a first employee to be paid at market rates.
    - zaidf 17y ago
      It's not black and white. There's a lot of gray. ie. A first emplyee doesn't usually house with the founders. A cofounder may be expected to.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- jmtame 17y ago
  Is it a fetus or is it a baby? It doesn't matter, it's so early that you can call it what you'd like. I think it's fine that they're looking for co-founders. They could just say "hiring first employee," but sounds like they're looking for a person who will be more involved than that.
  - cperciva 17y ago
    Is it a fetus or is it a baby? It doesn't matter If it dies, the law considers there there is a very large difference. :-) More seriously: The English language says that "co-founders" are "people who found together"... not "people who found together plus anyone who joins them shortly thereafter".
ConceptDog 17y ago
Seems like a really fun gig. Wish I had the chicken guts to qualify.
eserorg 17y ago
During Larry Ellison's recent interview with Ed Zander at the Churchill Club in Silicon Valley, someone asked Larry Ellison what he thought was the most significant distruptive innovation that Oracle was paying attention to. Larry Ellison said: "Flash". Apparently, Oracle is taking flash very seriously. They already have a flash-based Oracle database product that is shipping. And with the Sun acquisition, Oracle now owns MySQL. RethinkDB needs to move ahead fast.
- praxxis 17y ago
  Here I was thinking you meant Adobe Flash - cue massive confusion. You can get an Oracle database in flash?! Well it wont run on the iPhone...
- gcb 17y ago
  SGI on their demo truck once were showing a database... or was it filesystem... system that know how to keep things in memory, HD or tape, depending on the data usage.
mustpax 17y ago
This is one of those times where I honestly wish I was at a time and place in my life where I could take the leap. RethinkDB does exactly the kind of low level, rethink-the-whole-stack systems development that I've been crazy about from the get-go. Best of luck folks!
jasonlbaptiste 17y ago
Certain infrastructure plays really get me wet. This along with push notifications is one of them. We need to start building the infrastructure for the future. If I knew anyone who was qualified for this specifically, I would tell them to drop whatever they are doing and go join the company. Best of luck with the co-founder search and the future.
- prodigal_erik 17y ago
  As a storage engine, are they in any position to fix MySQL's deeply held assumptions that the user is generally not interested in validation or constraints? We should at least begin expecting correct answers if this is the infrastructure of the future.
jmtulloss 17y ago
I'm a pretty good engineer, and I think I'm better than I am, but I'm pretty sure I'm not smart enough for this gig. Seems like one of the few job descriptions that requires software/hacking skills as well as computer science skills.
pavs 17y ago
Just curious, whether you are interested in this job or not. Anyone here meets all or most of those qualifications mentioned there?
- raffi 17y ago
  I think the right person who sees this ad will jump on it. I like the fact this company is doing something systems oriented and not just another web app. Pretty cool to see Scott's startup and this out there. Good job YC. It looks like PG and crew are seeding some folks with potential to make a long term impact on the plumbing of our internetz.
ntoshev 17y ago
RethinkDB seems to implement a functional btree on a log-structured storage. This would involve lots of copying, I wonder what is the performance impact of this (compared to a less pure implementation that copies the modified nodes every thousand updates or so). Also, the most important feature for SSD storage (no random writes!) is fulfilled by Cassandra / BigTable implementations based on SSTables, I wonder how a btree-based implementation compares to them.
antirez 17y ago
Please can someone briefly explain why DB on SSD are important? Thanks
- ntoshev 17y ago
  Flash based storage is better than disk because there is no seek latency (the time for the head to find the location on the rotating platter where the data in interest are stored), which currently is the major bottleneck of databases. Also the transfer rate is faster than disks the prices are falling (not as fast as the prices of disk based-storage, but faster than RAM) Today a gigabyte of NAND costs less than 1/3rd as much as a gigabyte of DRAM and the gap between the two is growing. ... By the end of 2012, when a gigabyte of NAND costs 1/19th as much as a gigabyte of DRAM, the optimum balance of flash/RAM will be very different. http://www.storagesearch.com/ssd-ram-flash%20pricing.html http://www.storagesearch.com/ssd-ram-flash%20pricing.html
  - antirez 17y ago
    Disclaimer: I'm the author of Redis. The Q is, why don't directly jump to RAM instead to take this intermediate step?
    - Maro 17y ago
      When you turn off the computer, you loose what's in your memory. Solid state disks don't loose data when power is turned off.
      - antirez 17y ago
        ok thanks now I got it.
        gcb 17y ago
        i Don't. why exactly this must be done in the DB, against, say, in kernel or filesystem space?
Maro 17y ago
What's your business model?
- Maro 17y ago
  Ah, it's not open-source.

61 points by andreyf 17y ago

- You're not afraid of modifying Linux kernel source code. - You're not afraid of modifying MySQL source code. The truth is I am afraid of both of these things.

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
- antonovka 17y ago
  It's not that I don't like to solve problems, it's that Linux and MySQL code bases bring unnecessary problems to the table that I have no interest in solving.
  - ajross 17y ago
    Flamebait. You have cleaner and better examples of a world-class kernel and database engine? You want to do rocket surgery, you gotta bend a few scalpels.
    - coffeemug 17y ago
      FreeBSD is generally considered to be a cleaner and better example of world-class kernel. MySQL codebase is OK, but isn't fantastic. In general, all mature large systems come with a can of worms, and it takes a certain kind of person to deal with that. Legacy code is always less fun than a blank slate, unless you have certain mindset. Fortunately, we get to deal with both world-class legacy systems, and write some blank slate code. We get the best of both worlds :)
gcheong 17y ago
Fear of the unknown or once bitten twice shy?
cookiecaper 17y ago
Yeah, I think that's their "nice" way of asking for someone with significant experience there. The problem is that you only want someone with significant experience, not just someone who is "unafraid" of it, because any worthy developer unversed in those projects would be scared to just jump in and start changing random things if the work is ever going to be used. Both Linux and MySQL are huge, complex systems and if you want someone who can immediately start making usable changes to those systems, you should probably recruit on their respective mailing lists. Developers running in to huge things like Linux and MySQL ad-hoc and making changes causes lots of problems. See Debian's SSH-certificate problem from a year or so back for just one immediate example. As with any complex platform, it takes a lot of tinkering and experience to know what flies and what doesn't. Those dudes should change their ad away from the cute thing to the serious thing unless they plan on allowing the hire time to figure these things out.
- coffeemug 17y ago
  That's not true. While we'd prefer someone with experience in these areas, when we say "you're not afraid" we really mean "you're not afraid". Hacking Linux really isn't that hard. I implemented two kernel-level projects - a stackable filesystem that gives you an assurance your files haven't been tempered with, and an "object orientation" system that lets processes modify and inherit their syscall vectors. Each project took about four days and I never looked at the kernel code before. I had pretty good access to a Linux expert who pointed me in the right direction, but I didn't ask that many questions. It wasn't the caliber of code that would make it into vanilla, but it was very useable. The idea that hacking the Linux kernel requires superhuman abilities is a huge misconception. I can assure you that I'm as far away from being a genius as anyone. If I could do it, any reasonably competent software developer can. And the complexity of MySQL codebase pales in comparison to Linux. We want some degree of experience hacking high performance low level systems, but we care about competency, determination, and ability to ship working code far more than experience in any specific area. It's Linux and MySQL today, but it could be FreeBSD and Postgres tomorrow.
  - cookiecaper 17y ago
    I never said it required "superhuman abilities". It just requires some familiarity, obviously depending on how deep you want to go. The trend of developers running in guns blazing and changing a complex codebase they don't understand is bad. I'm glad your stuff was personally usable, but there's a difference between something that's adequate for personal use and something that you can distribute as part of your new _database engine_. That stuff requires serious stability and complex programs are complex and changes can often have unforeseen consequences even for devs already trained in these large projects. I'm not saying one can't learn, but I am saying that most good developers who haven't changed the source code for ginormous things like MySQL and Linux _are_ scared to take a new job where they're expected to be able to make meaningful and/or significant changes to any ginormous thing they don't have much familiarity changing, especially if you want to changes that are immediately deployable in your project. If you're going to give the dudes time to get used to MySQL and Linux and tinker and discuss adequately, then that's fine. If not, and you expect them to go from 0 to "usable filesystem" in 4 days, you should probably be more specific in your ad.

jmtame 17y ago

The founders are awesome =] This is a group that you'd want to work with, besides the cool technology challenges and perks of being early in a funded start up.

cperciva 17y ago

Can we please stop this nonsense about "cofounders" joining a company several months after it is founded? What's wrong with calling a spade a spade and saying "RethinkDB looking for 1st employee"?

zaidf 17y ago
Usually expectations, pay and equity.
- cperciva 17y ago
  Sounds to me like people have unreasonable expectations. I, for one, don't expect a first employee to be paid at market rates.
  - zaidf 17y ago
    It's not black and white. There's a lot of gray. ie. A first emplyee doesn't usually house with the founders. A cofounder may be expected to.
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
jmtame 17y ago
Is it a fetus or is it a baby? It doesn't matter, it's so early that you can call it what you'd like. I think it's fine that they're looking for co-founders. They could just say "hiring first employee," but sounds like they're looking for a person who will be more involved than that.
- cperciva 17y ago
  Is it a fetus or is it a baby? It doesn't matter If it dies, the law considers there there is a very large difference. :-) More seriously: The English language says that "co-founders" are "people who found together"... not "people who found together plus anyone who joins them shortly thereafter".

ConceptDog 17y ago

Seems like a really fun gig. Wish I had the chicken guts to qualify.

eserorg 17y ago

During Larry Ellison's recent interview with Ed Zander at the Churchill Club in Silicon Valley, someone asked Larry Ellison what he thought was the most significant distruptive innovation that Oracle was paying attention to. Larry Ellison said: "Flash". Apparently, Oracle is taking flash very seriously. They already have a flash-based Oracle database product that is shipping. And with the Sun acquisition, Oracle now owns MySQL. RethinkDB needs to move ahead fast.

praxxis 17y ago
Here I was thinking you meant Adobe Flash - cue massive confusion. You can get an Oracle database in flash?! Well it wont run on the iPhone...
gcb 17y ago
SGI on their demo truck once were showing a database... or was it filesystem... system that know how to keep things in memory, HD or tape, depending on the data usage.

mustpax 17y ago

This is one of those times where I honestly wish I was at a time and place in my life where I could take the leap. RethinkDB does exactly the kind of low level, rethink-the-whole-stack systems development that I've been crazy about from the get-go. Best of luck folks!

jasonlbaptiste 17y ago

Certain infrastructure plays really get me wet. This along with push notifications is one of them. We need to start building the infrastructure for the future. If I knew anyone who was qualified for this specifically, I would tell them to drop whatever they are doing and go join the company. Best of luck with the co-founder search and the future.

prodigal_erik 17y ago
As a storage engine, are they in any position to fix MySQL's deeply held assumptions that the user is generally not interested in validation or constraints? We should at least begin expecting correct answers if this is the infrastructure of the future.

jmtulloss 17y ago

I'm a pretty good engineer, and I think I'm better than I am, but I'm pretty sure I'm not smart enough for this gig. Seems like one of the few job descriptions that requires software/hacking skills as well as computer science skills.

pavs 17y ago

Just curious, whether you are interested in this job or not. Anyone here meets all or most of those qualifications mentioned there?

raffi 17y ago
I think the right person who sees this ad will jump on it. I like the fact this company is doing something systems oriented and not just another web app. Pretty cool to see Scott's startup and this out there. Good job YC. It looks like PG and crew are seeding some folks with potential to make a long term impact on the plumbing of our internetz.

ntoshev 17y ago

RethinkDB seems to implement a functional btree on a log-structured storage. This would involve lots of copying, I wonder what is the performance impact of this (compared to a less pure implementation that copies the modified nodes every thousand updates or so). Also, the most important feature for SSD storage (no random writes!) is fulfilled by Cassandra / BigTable implementations based on SSTables, I wonder how a btree-based implementation compares to them.

antirez 17y ago

Please can someone briefly explain why DB on SSD are important? Thanks

ntoshev 17y ago
Flash based storage is better than disk because there is no seek latency (the time for the head to find the location on the rotating platter where the data in interest are stored), which currently is the major bottleneck of databases. Also the transfer rate is faster than disks the prices are falling (not as fast as the prices of disk based-storage, but faster than RAM) Today a gigabyte of NAND costs less than 1/3rd as much as a gigabyte of DRAM and the gap between the two is growing. ... By the end of 2012, when a gigabyte of NAND costs 1/19th as much as a gigabyte of DRAM, the optimum balance of flash/RAM will be very different. http://www.storagesearch.com/ssd-ram-flash%20pricing.html http://www.storagesearch.com/ssd-ram-flash%20pricing.html
- antirez 17y ago
  Disclaimer: I'm the author of Redis. The Q is, why don't directly jump to RAM instead to take this intermediate step?
  - Maro 17y ago
    When you turn off the computer, you loose what's in your memory. Solid state disks don't loose data when power is turned off.
    - antirez 17y ago
      ok thanks now I got it.
      - gcb 17y ago
        i Don't. why exactly this must be done in the DB, against, say, in kernel or filesystem space?

Maro 17y ago

What's your business model?

Maro 17y ago
Ah, it's not open-source.