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You seem to not realize those are problems for us, human virus, and not the planet problems. Those so called problems are natures way of trying to balance thing

by rasz_pl 12y ago

You seem to not realize those are problems for us, human virus, and not the planet problems. Those so called problems are natures way of trying to balance things. If you cut hunger and make a breakthrough in healthcare you will immediately accelerate population growth, and in effect accelerate pollution and energy use. Earth is unsustainable in the long run. No one is willing to accept euthanasia, birth limits, basically efforts to maintain population caps. People might say its a good idea others should implement, not them personally :)

ChrisGranger 12y ago
Don't the nations with the best health care also tend to (perhaps not always) have slower population growth?
- eivarv 12y ago
  I think there is a host of factors to keep in mind about the nations in question. These nations (good health care, slow population growth) [1] tend to be highly developed countries [2], with relatively high average education of its citizens [3] and high life expectancy [4]. Many of them also have high social equality and high cost of living because of higher taxation (e.g. the cost of social programs and universal healthcare) [5]. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_growth_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population... [2]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Deve... [3]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index [4]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expec... [5]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequality-adjusted_HDI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequality...
bjelkeman-again 12y ago
To learn more about population growth and the many misconceptions around it, I'd recommend watching something from Prof. Hans Rosling. Here are a few things: http://www.gapminder.org/videos/dont-panic-the-facts-about-population/ http://www.gapminder.org/videos/dont-panic-the-facts-about-p...
- rasz_pl 12y ago
  I would suggest this too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY
  - ehsanu1 12y ago
    While there are many who people do not understand exponential growth, such as that video's target audience, I'm pretty sure that none of them are population projectionists.
    - rasz_pl 12y ago
      Its not that they dont understand, they dont even think about it. Even Hans Rosling from the clip above spends whole 3 seconds on the subject of energy needed to support 20 Billion people living at the same comfortable level as top billion people today in developed countries. I seem to remember some funny back of envelope calculations that put energy needs of earth in 100 years (assuming current growth) at _full output_ of our sun.
cosmichorizons8 12y ago
I would not say that no one is willing to do something. I think that the preaching of sustainability does focus on the wrong problem, at least on the long run. Seams that not many people want to spell out where on Earth lies its most imminent problem. http://www.wrsc.org/sites/default/files/images/2011/population_growth_over_the_last_500_years.jpg http://www.wrsc.org/sites/default/files/images/2011/populati... http://prorev.com/808POPGROWTH.JPG http://prorev.com/808POPGROWTH.JPG Luckily some projections show that the growth in those problematic areas my stabilize http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_growth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_growth
eivarv 12y ago
While I somewhat share your misanthropy, "nature" isn't really an entity and doesn't really have a goal in mind. So it's not so much an external agent responding to our behavior as our behavior being poorly though out. Also, these problems does not necessarily only affect us; some of them might result in irreparable damage to the ecosystem. Pedantry aside, factors that contribute to Terra's apparent lack of long term sustainability are easy to spot, and there are plenty of options to try before having to resort to birth limits, euthanasia etc. Insufficient reproductive education, lack of birth control, local scarcity through international inequality (i.e. exploitation), patterns of use and consumption, low food production efficiency, pollution from energy usage (non-alternative forms) and population density/distribution are all things that can be altered, upon which the constraints of viability rests. Of course, none of these would be particularly easy to change, but I suspect many of us would find attempting to do so preferable to the alternatives.

by rasz_pl 12y ago

ChrisGranger 12y ago

Don't the nations with the best health care also tend to (perhaps not always) have slower population growth?

eivarv 12y ago
I think there is a host of factors to keep in mind about the nations in question. These nations (good health care, slow population growth) [1] tend to be highly developed countries [2], with relatively high average education of its citizens [3] and high life expectancy [4]. Many of them also have high social equality and high cost of living because of higher taxation (e.g. the cost of social programs and universal healthcare) [5]. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_growth_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population... [2]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Deve... [3]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index [4]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expec... [5]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequality-adjusted_HDI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequality...

bjelkeman-again 12y ago

To learn more about population growth and the many misconceptions around it, I'd recommend watching something from Prof. Hans Rosling. Here are a few things: http://www.gapminder.org/videos/dont-panic-the-facts-about-population/ http://www.gapminder.org/videos/dont-panic-the-facts-about-p...

rasz_pl 12y ago
I would suggest this too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY
- ehsanu1 12y ago
  While there are many who people do not understand exponential growth, such as that video's target audience, I'm pretty sure that none of them are population projectionists.
  - rasz_pl 12y ago
    Its not that they dont understand, they dont even think about it. Even Hans Rosling from the clip above spends whole 3 seconds on the subject of energy needed to support 20 Billion people living at the same comfortable level as top billion people today in developed countries. I seem to remember some funny back of envelope calculations that put energy needs of earth in 100 years (assuming current growth) at _full output_ of our sun.

cosmichorizons8 12y ago

I would not say that no one is willing to do something. I think that the preaching of sustainability does focus on the wrong problem, at least on the long run. Seams that not many people want to spell out where on Earth lies its most imminent problem. http://www.wrsc.org/sites/default/files/images/2011/population_growth_over_the_last_500_years.jpg http://www.wrsc.org/sites/default/files/images/2011/populati... http://prorev.com/808POPGROWTH.JPG http://prorev.com/808POPGROWTH.JPG Luckily some projections show that the growth in those problematic areas my stabilize http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_growth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_growth

eivarv 12y ago

While I somewhat share your misanthropy, "nature" isn't really an entity and doesn't really have a goal in mind. So it's not so much an external agent responding to our behavior as our behavior being poorly though out. Also, these problems does not necessarily only affect us; some of them might result in irreparable damage to the ecosystem. Pedantry aside, factors that contribute to Terra's apparent lack of long term sustainability are easy to spot, and there are plenty of options to try before having to resort to birth limits, euthanasia etc. Insufficient reproductive education, lack of birth control, local scarcity through international inequality (i.e. exploitation), patterns of use and consumption, low food production efficiency, pollution from energy usage (non-alternative forms) and population density/distribution are all things that can be altered, upon which the constraints of viability rests. Of course, none of these would be particularly easy to change, but I suspect many of us would find attempting to do so preferable to the alternatives.