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This is fundamentally a question of the balance between our efforts focused on the long-term vs those focused on the short-term. Space exploration offers signif

by avz 12y ago

This is fundamentally a question of the balance between our efforts focused on the long-term vs those focused on the short-term. Space exploration offers significant benefits long-term but generally provides no immediate pay-off next quarter. I'm personally baffled by the desire to focus all our resources on the short-term. The questions of the long-term future of humankind and our place in the universe, make the immediate issues like pollution and disease look petty and irrelevant by comparison. Also, from the practical angle, we're already spending a huge amount of money on solving our local, short-term problems here on Earth. Adding ~$2 trillion would be an increase, but not a game-changer. OTOH, humanity spends under $50 billion/year on space [1]. Adding $2 trillion would constitute 4000% increase! This might be enough to transform humanity from a precarious single-planet species into an interplanetary civilization in a few generations. Another important point is that a lot of our problems here on Earth are entirely self-inflicted (e.g. inequality, pollution, global warming) and so they can't simply be fixed by throwing money at them: they need political transformation. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_government_space_agencies#Budgets http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_government_space_agenci...

revscat 12y ago
> Another important point is that a lot of our problems here on Earth are entirely self-inflicted (e.g. inequality, pollution, global warming) and so they can't simply be fixed by throwing money at them: they need political transformation. Yes, but so long as global warming is a threat then the notion of humanity expanding to the stars is a pipe-dream. If the planet becomes incapable of supporting advanced social structures -- or, worse, complex lifeforms whatsoever -- then no one is going to be going anywhere: there will be no one left to travel.
- onewaystreet 12y ago
  None of that is going to happen anytime soon. Market forces (oil prices are down now, but in the long term they will go back up forcing us to move to cleaner alternatives) as well as the beginning effects of global warming (flooding) will force us to change long before the planet becomes uninhabitable.
  - einrealist 12y ago
    I hope so. But honestly, I think we will not be able to stop it. There is too much traction from behaviors that will prevent us from actually doing anything. Preventing it would require us to give up many luxuries and things we call a standard. Greed is too strong. Earth will probably end up like Venus because of us.
  - manu3000 12y ago
    IPCC says +5 deg at end of this century... isn't that soon ? Last time this happened (250 millions years ago) 95% of existing species were wiped out (http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/27714-are-humans-going-extinct http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/27714-are-humans-going-ex...)
coryt 12y ago
>Space exploration offers significant benefits long-term but generally provides no immediate pay-off next quarter. Really? What about all the inventions discovered during the space race...The biggest impact inventions being integrated circuits, satellite communications and GPS, but there were so many others like Corningware[1], Tempur foam [2], LEDs, Freeze Drying Technology, etc [3] that one could argue provided many short term benefits and enabled discoveries of countless others. [1] http://www.corning.com/about_us/inside_corning/did_you_know/index.aspx http://www.corning.com/about_us/inside_corning/did_you_know/... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempur-Pedic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempur-Pedic [3] http://spinoff.nasa.gov/Spinoff2008/tech_benefits.html http://spinoff.nasa.gov/Spinoff2008/tech_benefits.html
- avz 12y ago
  These short-term benefits are minuscule compared to both the costs and the long-term benefits. There are more cost-effective ways of developing better frying pans, pillows and small blinking lights than running a space exploration program. OTOH, there is no other way to ensure long term survival of human civilization than diversifying our real estate away from one planet. The only reliable way to argue for space exploration is by explaining how important the long-term benefits are.
  - einrealist 12y ago
    > The only reliable way to argue for space exploration is by explaining how important the long-term benefits are. It is a gamble. Gambling is nice as long we have the resources. Global warming can eat those easily.
einrealist 12y ago
I would agree, if space exploration was initiated under better terms than the Cold War. We started to send rockets into space in order to become better with annihilation of the opponent. We were really lucky that it turned into something we have today. But that will not last. Privatization of space travel is already underway. That bears the question: Who benefits? I am afraid that if we invest in space exploration and colonization, we would shift priorities from saving this world to escaping it. Only a few would be able to escape it - those who have the resources. (It is kind of what the movie Interstellar is about.) We need to save this world first, before we can allow ourself to "infect" other worlds. If we cannot sustain on this planet, e.g. stop global warming in the next years, we are doomed and it becomes impossible to even think about shooting a single human into space again. If we need to test things in space for that, I'm fine with that. But lets not lose track of our short term problems.

by avz 12y ago

revscat 12y ago

> Another important point is that a lot of our problems here on Earth are entirely self-inflicted (e.g. inequality, pollution, global warming) and so they can't simply be fixed by throwing money at them: they need political transformation. Yes, but so long as global warming is a threat then the notion of humanity expanding to the stars is a pipe-dream. If the planet becomes incapable of supporting advanced social structures -- or, worse, complex lifeforms whatsoever -- then no one is going to be going anywhere: there will be no one left to travel.

onewaystreet 12y ago
None of that is going to happen anytime soon. Market forces (oil prices are down now, but in the long term they will go back up forcing us to move to cleaner alternatives) as well as the beginning effects of global warming (flooding) will force us to change long before the planet becomes uninhabitable.
- einrealist 12y ago
  I hope so. But honestly, I think we will not be able to stop it. There is too much traction from behaviors that will prevent us from actually doing anything. Preventing it would require us to give up many luxuries and things we call a standard. Greed is too strong. Earth will probably end up like Venus because of us.
- manu3000 12y ago
  IPCC says +5 deg at end of this century... isn't that soon ? Last time this happened (250 millions years ago) 95% of existing species were wiped out (http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/27714-are-humans-going-extinct http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/27714-are-humans-going-ex...)

coryt 12y ago

>Space exploration offers significant benefits long-term but generally provides no immediate pay-off next quarter. Really? What about all the inventions discovered during the space race...The biggest impact inventions being integrated circuits, satellite communications and GPS, but there were so many others like Corningware[1], Tempur foam [2], LEDs, Freeze Drying Technology, etc [3] that one could argue provided many short term benefits and enabled discoveries of countless others. [1] http://www.corning.com/about_us/inside_corning/did_you_know/index.aspx http://www.corning.com/about_us/inside_corning/did_you_know/... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempur-Pedic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempur-Pedic [3] http://spinoff.nasa.gov/Spinoff2008/tech_benefits.html http://spinoff.nasa.gov/Spinoff2008/tech_benefits.html

avz 12y ago
These short-term benefits are minuscule compared to both the costs and the long-term benefits. There are more cost-effective ways of developing better frying pans, pillows and small blinking lights than running a space exploration program. OTOH, there is no other way to ensure long term survival of human civilization than diversifying our real estate away from one planet. The only reliable way to argue for space exploration is by explaining how important the long-term benefits are.
- einrealist 12y ago
  > The only reliable way to argue for space exploration is by explaining how important the long-term benefits are. It is a gamble. Gambling is nice as long we have the resources. Global warming can eat those easily.

einrealist 12y ago

I would agree, if space exploration was initiated under better terms than the Cold War. We started to send rockets into space in order to become better with annihilation of the opponent. We were really lucky that it turned into something we have today. But that will not last. Privatization of space travel is already underway. That bears the question: Who benefits? I am afraid that if we invest in space exploration and colonization, we would shift priorities from saving this world to escaping it. Only a few would be able to escape it - those who have the resources. (It is kind of what the movie Interstellar is about.) We need to save this world first, before we can allow ourself to "infect" other worlds. If we cannot sustain on this planet, e.g. stop global warming in the next years, we are doomed and it becomes impossible to even think about shooting a single human into space again. If we need to test things in space for that, I'm fine with that. But lets not lose track of our short term problems.