5 ms·

Seems like interest in potential beneficial effects of hallucinogens has been rising. It's certainly true for ketamine, as it's being studied as a therapy for

by jrapdx3 12y ago

Seems like interest in potential beneficial effects of hallucinogens has been rising. It's certainly true for ketamine, as it's being studied as a therapy for treatment resistant depression. The results look promising but the jury is still out re: satisfying FDA approval requirements. As the article says, psilocybin could have favorable effects in depression, possibly resembling results with ketamine. Other hallucingenics are often mentioned in this regard, like LSD or mescaline. There have been reports of utility of low dose THC for depression. In discussions of potential value of any drug the pivotal issue is the risk/benefit ratio. Hallucinogens have unmistakably caused adverse reactions. Panic, psychosis, dissociative states have been observed often enough to warrant a high level of caution in using such drugs. Part of the problem is the randomness of bad reactions. It's usually difficult to predict which users (or subsets of users) will endure adverse effects at a particular drug dose. Drug interactions is another concern. A great deal of study is necessary to sort out the parameters of (relatively) safe use.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
cnrsvxz 12y ago
There are a few non-hallucinogenic and non-sedative derivatives of ketamine being studied at the moment as antidepressants. Anecdotes of their use seem to be positive, but of course those should be taken with a grain of salt. See LongeCity's Brain Health forum for some crazy threads relating to this.[0] On another note, this summer I experimented with NSI-189[1] for depression to great effect. It's a hippocampal neurogenic agent currently prepping for phase 2 trials. I found that its antidepressant effects over a one-month cycle were remarkably similar to my single psilocybin experience a few years back. Specifically, they both (or rather, I) exhibited two characteristics: (a) "Illuminating" rather than the "dulling" of traditional antidepressants. A feeling of irrational filters being lifted from all my senses and the cognitive functions directly adjacent to them. It doesn't feel like a band-aid like tricyclics and SSRIs do. It feels like a realization that the depression is a lie, that it doesn't reflect the actual state of the world. (b) Persistence of the effect long after the chemical was no longer in my system. Where "long" was approximately two years for the psilocybin, and I'm coming up on four months after cessation of the NSI-189 with not just steady benefits but continuous improvement. This matches the results found in the Phase 1b trial.[2] Now I haven't gotten an MRI to see if my hippocampus has grown to an abnormal size, like was found in an early mouse study, but my experience has made me extremely optimistic for the next ten years of antidepressant research. I'm fairly certain we'll be able to narrow down the exact mechanisms by which psychedelics alleviate depression and isolate them from the permanent destructive potential of most psychedelics.[3] [0] http://www.longecity.org/forum/forum/169-brain-health/ http://www.longecity.org/forum/forum/169-brain-health/ [1] It is currently not being sold, and its patent-holder Neuralstem is being quite threatening toward would-be vendors. There is nothing illegal about purchasing it, but it would be difficult for anyone in the US without indirect access to a quality Asian synth lab and a domestic third party testing facility. [2] http://smithonstocks.com/neuralstem-phase-1b-results-for-nsi-189-are-very-encouraging-but-it-is-early-days-cur-buy-4-38-for-paid-subscribers/ http://smithonstocks.com/neuralstem-phase-1b-results-for-nsi... [3] I should mention that though I'm comparing NSI-189 to traditional psychedelics in this comment, it doesn't actually have any major immediate effects. Common anecdotal effects include heightened taste and smell, back-of-skull pressure/ache and mild parasthesia. A couple instances of major, painful parasthesia in individuals with previous nerve damage. But no headspace, no high, no rush, no immediate feeling that you're taking a drug at all, and the antidepressant effects do not reveal themselves for at least a week.
- atomical 12y ago
  I'm curious where your supply comes from. Are you a chemist?
  - cnrsvxz 12y ago
    No, there are various online communities for experimental, legal drug use, each with their own themes and safety guidelines that depend on the users' goals. Overseas labs are not too hard to come by, but language barriers and repeated shoddy synthesis (see also: Alibaba) can raise the effective cost by orders of magnitude. Then it's worth your while to get the sample independently tested after importation. This, combined with significant economies of scale, leads to group buys being a common method of acquiring substances. One trusted person who has contacts and a history with known quality labs (who often ask not to be revealed to the whole group, especially if they're in Europe) is chosen to organize the money, make the purchase, having preliminary testing done, repackage into each person's order, and ship them the rest of the way. I neglected to mention precisely how I acquired it because, as mentioned, Neuralstem is not joking around. (It wasn't as a group buy.) They do not have any existing treatments on the market and currently have just two in human trials: NSI-189, an antidepressant and ostensibly nootropic, and NSI-566, a stem cell treatment for ALS. It's not surprising that they're freaked out by use of one of these treatments years before it could ever be approved as a pharmaceutical.

by jrapdx3 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

cnrsvxz 12y ago

There are a few non-hallucinogenic and non-sedative derivatives of ketamine being studied at the moment as antidepressants. Anecdotes of their use seem to be positive, but of course those should be taken with a grain of salt. See LongeCity's Brain Health forum for some crazy threads relating to this.[0] On another note, this summer I experimented with NSI-189[1] for depression to great effect. It's a hippocampal neurogenic agent currently prepping for phase 2 trials. I found that its antidepressant effects over a one-month cycle were remarkably similar to my single psilocybin experience a few years back. Specifically, they both (or rather, I) exhibited two characteristics: (a) "Illuminating" rather than the "dulling" of traditional antidepressants. A feeling of irrational filters being lifted from all my senses and the cognitive functions directly adjacent to them. It doesn't feel like a band-aid like tricyclics and SSRIs do. It feels like a realization that the depression is a lie, that it doesn't reflect the actual state of the world. (b) Persistence of the effect long after the chemical was no longer in my system. Where "long" was approximately two years for the psilocybin, and I'm coming up on four months after cessation of the NSI-189 with not just steady benefits but continuous improvement. This matches the results found in the Phase 1b trial.[2] Now I haven't gotten an MRI to see if my hippocampus has grown to an abnormal size, like was found in an early mouse study, but my experience has made me extremely optimistic for the next ten years of antidepressant research. I'm fairly certain we'll be able to narrow down the exact mechanisms by which psychedelics alleviate depression and isolate them from the permanent destructive potential of most psychedelics.[3] [0] http://www.longecity.org/forum/forum/169-brain-health/ http://www.longecity.org/forum/forum/169-brain-health/ [1] It is currently not being sold, and its patent-holder Neuralstem is being quite threatening toward would-be vendors. There is nothing illegal about purchasing it, but it would be difficult for anyone in the US without indirect access to a quality Asian synth lab and a domestic third party testing facility. [2] http://smithonstocks.com/neuralstem-phase-1b-results-for-nsi-189-are-very-encouraging-but-it-is-early-days-cur-buy-4-38-for-paid-subscribers/ http://smithonstocks.com/neuralstem-phase-1b-results-for-nsi... [3] I should mention that though I'm comparing NSI-189 to traditional psychedelics in this comment, it doesn't actually have any major immediate effects. Common anecdotal effects include heightened taste and smell, back-of-skull pressure/ache and mild parasthesia. A couple instances of major, painful parasthesia in individuals with previous nerve damage. But no headspace, no high, no rush, no immediate feeling that you're taking a drug at all, and the antidepressant effects do not reveal themselves for at least a week.

atomical 12y ago
I'm curious where your supply comes from. Are you a chemist?
- cnrsvxz 12y ago
  No, there are various online communities for experimental, legal drug use, each with their own themes and safety guidelines that depend on the users' goals. Overseas labs are not too hard to come by, but language barriers and repeated shoddy synthesis (see also: Alibaba) can raise the effective cost by orders of magnitude. Then it's worth your while to get the sample independently tested after importation. This, combined with significant economies of scale, leads to group buys being a common method of acquiring substances. One trusted person who has contacts and a history with known quality labs (who often ask not to be revealed to the whole group, especially if they're in Europe) is chosen to organize the money, make the purchase, having preliminary testing done, repackage into each person's order, and ship them the rest of the way. I neglected to mention precisely how I acquired it because, as mentioned, Neuralstem is not joking around. (It wasn't as a group buy.) They do not have any existing treatments on the market and currently have just two in human trials: NSI-189, an antidepressant and ostensibly nootropic, and NSI-566, a stem cell treatment for ALS. It's not surprising that they're freaked out by use of one of these treatments years before it could ever be approved as a pharmaceutical.