6 ms·
Google's new culture: Perks are out. Being grateful you have a job is in
- _fool 17y agointerestingly, google's offered pay rates for system administrators when they've tried to recruit me have been industry standard--for Austin, TX. but the jobs were in silicon valley. maybe other roles have higher pay scales, but i turned them down because i didn't think they were paying well, and i am only used to salaries from state jobs, which have tended to be very nearly median for the industry. last time they tried to recruit me was 3-4 years ago. perhaps they've changed. but it held true for at least 4 years before that as well.
- mildweed 17y agoThey had better not get rid of that 20% of your time on a pet project perk. That is an inherent strategic advantage.
- falsestprophet 17y agoA lot of Googlers report 20% time is a bit of myth, because many engineers end up struggling more than 100% time to deliver their principle project.
- plinkplonk 17y ago"A lot of Googler reports 20% time is a bit of myth," I thought it could be accumulated and taken at at a stretch.
- stcredzero 17y agoI used to do that at my old company! And it was definitely an old company!
- CamperBob 17y agoHewlett-Packard?
- stcredzero 17y agoThat level of old, but not HP. It was actually the first company to exist off of 100% software sales/licensing revenue. (Not hardware sales, with accompanying software, like IBM in those days.)
- blasdel 17y agoSPSS?
- tesseract 17y agoDoes anyone know whether HP had anything like 20% time in its earlier days? I've never heard that they did, but now that you mention it it does seem like the kind of thing that HP might have done.
- CamperBob 17y agoOld-school HP was so awesome it would have made Google look like a Communist labor camp. As long as you did what they paid you to do, your time basically was your own, along with a key to the company stockroom. One (admittedly high-level) guy built a stereo amp -- http://www.hpmemory.org/news/barney_ampl/barney_page_00.htm http://www.hpmemory.org/news/barney_ampl/barney_page_00.htm -- and the company indulged him by allocating some surplus factory capacity to a limited production run.
- philwelch 17y agoI remember reading that Woz used his time at HP to invent the first Apple computer. (Then HP decided that microcomputers were a silly waste of time so they gave Woz back the rights to it.)
- pwmanagerdied 17y agoI'm pretty sure the major factor is your project manager; some are very liberal with how their managees spend their time, others require 20% can only be used for approved projects and set the bar higher than one would hope.
- chollida1 17y agoIt really depends on what team you work for. Lots of people I know are too busy on their main project to even think of 20% time. It's nice to know that you have 2 months of 20% time booked but it's not feasible for most people to bank it and then use it later. I'd say that unless your 20% project is a pet management project then the chances of you working on it 20% of your time is pretty small:(
- smokey_the_bear 17y agoMost of the people that I knew who had 20% projects, it was something like getting unit test coverage up for their main project. Mine was maintaining my previous project for years. Some people do have cool ones, but it wasn't common.
- justlearning 17y agohttp://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/9qeuq/i_quit_my_job_as_a_google_engineer_after_1_year/ http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/9qeuq/i_quit_my_job_as... and http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/9qej9/i_am_a_google_engineer_ask_me_anything/ http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/9qej9/i_am_a_google_en... interesting point of views from an ex-googler and a googler (with both rifting into each other's thread) if you don't mind the trolly-one liners, a good insight into the 20% project("20% time is a lie"), food etc...
- tptacek 17y agoAfter this, re-read: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2006/09/good-agile-bad-agile_27.html http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2006/09/good-agile-bad-agile... Start at the text "(cue happy rat)".
- ulf 17y agoSome day people will look back and pinpoint that the day the free snacks were taken away was the day that Google started to be just like every other company...
- stcredzero 17y agoExtreme Programming advocates readily available snacks in the workspace as an effective productivity and morale boost!
- steve19 17y agoThis will bite them in the ass. Wages are rarely a source of satisfaction in a job. Employees consider them simply the fair exchange for their time. The perks on the job and the company culture count for much more. I suspect that is everyone was given a 5% paycut, but the perks kept, they would be happier than they are now. (I refer in general to all employees - not just the engineers)
- plinkplonk 17y ago"we decided to, for example, we significantly cut down all the snacks that had been available. [laughter]" Sounds more like a joke to me. Are google perks like the gourmet food really being cut? (I heard about the child care changes. It sounded like a reasonable change to me but not being a Googler I wouldn't know and the details are hazy). The head line seems sensationalistic and gives the impression that the folks at the top have made a actual decision to move more towards a "grey corporation". I had also assumed(wrongly?) that the layoffs got rid of some dubious people who were hired. I personally know some not so great people who somehow got hired. Do any quotes or facts bear this out? The linked article seemed hyperbolic and twisting some quotes out of proportion. I sthere any difference "on the ground"? People don't get free food now? Sounds insane!
- blinks 17y agoWell, I'm still getting free food up here in Google Kirkland, and it's great. The article seemed pretty odd to me, too.
- plinkplonk 17y agoYes so what perks are being cut exactly? The article is vague about that.
- litewulf 17y agoMy manager no longer comes by my desk and pats me on the back every day. I no longer bathe in milk in the gym shower anymore either. Its been rough.
- zaphar 17y agoNot cuts so much as scaling back and eliminating waste. If you can provide the same perk in a less wasteful way then you save.
- nostrademons 17y agoTea time has gone the way of the dinosaur. (Well, technically not, since the dinosaur is still standing out in the courtyard, but tea time is just gone, but you know what I mean.) Also, Charlie's Cafe now serves hamburgers and fries. Rumor has it that when Charlie was here, he banned the use of ketchup as a disincentive to the serving of foods that require it. Googlers are better than that!
- ajju 17y agoDefinitely a bit of sensationalism going on with that headline even though it uses some of the words Schmidt did.
- brown9-2 17y agoThe worker bees must be thrilled to hear this The tightening that [CFO] Patrick [Pichette] in particular did, who I think is the current Google hero
- mvgoogler 17y agoThe free snacks, drinks, food are most definitely NOT gone. Have there been some cut-backs? Sure. So now the perks are merely incredible instead of ridiculous-verging-on-embarassingly-good. So yeah, the micro-kitchens now have ~75 types of snacks instead of 100+ and we are now limited to 40-ish types of free drinks in the cooler instead of twice that. And now we drink filtered water instead of Smart-Water. Life is hard ;-) Also there are still fresh-made sandwiches, sushi and salads delivered to the kitchen every day and I can still walk to one of the dozen-plus cafes and get three hot meals, prepared fresh each day by talented chefs. Oh - the article neglected to mention the fact that Patrick's cost-cutting measured resulted in the annual bonus being paid out at over 100% this year, instead of the much lower amount that we were on target for before he showed up. So yeah - I would say a lot of people would consider Patrick to be a bit of a hero.
- nikolayv 17y agoWould have to strongly disagree on the snacks. In 47, our snacks disappear very quickly, and there's definitely not 75 different types. There's maybe 10. Tech Stops have disappeared, they run out of bikes for interns, don't even get me started on how crowded the gyms have become, it's definitely worse than before. Perhaps I'm bitter because I got no annual bonus as an intern :)
- arithmetic 17y agoI'm surprised people thought the perks would last. Every company goes through that phase, where employees are showered with perks (of bizarre variety - everything from free laundry to day care for kids to free pop soda). The company either grows to the point where many of the perks are no longer sustainable (employees grow older, have kids -> company spends a LOT more on day care etc.), and/or hits an economic recession where belts need to be tightened. These things don't last. The stuff that lasts are the quality of the people, the culture of the employees (and hence the company) and the products that they ship.
- Sthorpe 17y agoI disagree. I think the perks would have continued if it wasn't for the down encon.
- WalkingDead 17y agoParent said that economy will go down at some point no matter what. Which is why perks don't last. That's only one of the many reasons.
- jawngee 17y agoTotally didn't see that coming coughbubble onecough
- alexgartrell 17y agoThe perks were meant to keep people in, to keep them working. I think it's a good thing that they're cutting this crap out. That said, having worked as an intern at a place where they decided to get rid of free soda makes me positive that I won't do that again, though. IMHO, it's a "screw you" to developers.
- JCThoughtscream 17y agoArticle's rather disingenuous. Google's perks list is still Extensive - trimming services out of fiscal concern isn't the same thing as switching to a minimalistic "be glad we give you anything at all" approach. And how much of it's just PR from Schmidt to avoid looking like they're out of touch with the current economic situation?
- netsp 17y agoIS it really expensive? How do you measure these things? Relative to salary? Relative to other company's perks bill?
- JCThoughtscream 17y agoGood question! I've no idea. Maybe by how often it's used?
- cdibona 17y agoWe did rework the micro-kitchens, but there's still some solidly awesome junk food there. (pocky!)
- JCThoughtscream 17y agoAnd there you have it. Given that Pocky is decidedly overpriced and overhyped, the fact that Google's serving it is proof that they're still perk-happy!
- ShabbyDoo 17y agoThe risk of instituting a new perk isn't the cost over the first N months -- it's the impact on morale, PR, etc. if you ever decide to take it away. Restaurants have "special pricing promotions" to set the expectation that the "lower price" perk won't be around forever (and to motivate people by through the creation of temporal scarcity). During the perk period, the restaurant gets more people in the door by offering a better deal. Google's perk cycle is opposite that of a restaurant. During good times, they have to make working there really attractive. But, right now, they don't have to give away so much, so they can scale back. The problem is that the expectation was explicitly set high (think about the IPO owner's manual).
- deleted 17y ago[deleted]
- robk 17y agoMy favorite shark-jump moment was when someone in HR sent out a blast email announcing a new HR initiative for a "wear pajamas to work day" highlighting Google culture. When HR has to manufacture culture and call it a perk, things are on their way downhill...
- albemuth 17y agoOn a previous company they had "wear slippers day" and a couple of times the HR staff went around the office <b>selling</b> snacks...
- stcredzero 17y agoA previous software company I worked for had its offices in what used to be nun's quarters. The rooms were small for living space, but very nice for an office, I hear. Apparently, the founder/CEO let the nuns come around once a year and talk to the employees about issues like their "salvation."
- smokey_the_bear 17y agoMy favorite was the thread that followed that, outlining the differences between "wear what what you sleep in to work" and "wear pajamas to work"
- wildjim 17y agohttp://www.techcrunch.com/2009/01/18/why-google-employees-quit/ http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/01/18/why-google-employees-qu... It's basically very accurate.
- wglb 17y agoThe headline is quite unfair to the article's content and to what schmidt and Sergey actually say.
- Sthorpe 17y agoI don't see the attraction to working for Google. Unless they buy my company. o.O
- beilabs 17y agoThis is probably a much more balanced article about the current state of Google. http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/20091007/live-from-new-york-google-cofounder-sergey-brin-meets-the-press/ http://mediamemo.allthingsd.com/20091007/live-from-new-york-... To be honest, the child-care cuts were on the cards for over a year. Having less of a choice when it comes to food is only natural, I can only imagine the amount of wasted food that was produced every day...
- dimas 17y agoGoogle provide better perks then most of the companies out there. Have to admit that all perks they provide make you feel more like being a start up by offering you chose of projects, freedom of actions and creative expression and corresponding intensives. It might be a perfect place for the once who love start up culture and want to create new things without corporate pressure but are willing to sacrifice true perks of starting one for stability and relative luck of risk. I still would go for perks of own start up that Google can not provide me.
- igorlev 17y agoMaybe perks don't really scale so well. It's surprising that he said the pay is very good, I was the impression people took paycuts for the google priviledge.
- tigerthink 17y agohttp://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Salaries-E9079.htm http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Salaries-E9079.htm Looks pretty good to me.
- deleted 17y ago[deleted]
- mpk 17y agoPerks are a really bad way of measuring the workplace. Me, I wake up on Monday morning and think 'cool, there's work to do!' - and most of my coworkers feel the same way. For me, that's the measure of a good job.
- ahoyhere 17y agoUmm... nobody talking about the social contract aspect of this? Salary is soon forgotten, once it's regular, if you're not focused on it all the time. But when a company provides so many perks, people feel like it's out of a social contract. Company X is my friend, Company X gives me free stuff, gives me time to work on my own things, takes me on vacations. I don't just work here for a salary -- look at this, they really treat us right. They care. They know that we are addicted to Pocky / need childcare / are too into working to drive out of Mtn View and find a burger. Take them away and it's like your friend just revealed that they were only into you for your money. Or to find a way to get to your sister. People feel betrayed. Betrayal is a nasty, nasty feeling that leads people to do backlashy things.