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Can you expand on why you think Tom Preston-Werner is mean? From all I've seen he appears to be a good person. GitHub reached 150 employees without having any

by mwhite 12y ago

Can you expand on why you think Tom Preston-Werner is mean? From all I've seen he appears to be a good person. GitHub reached 150 employees without having anyone quit, which hardly seems likely if the Founder and CEO is mean. https://twitter.com/holman/status/303576839132164097 https://twitter.com/holman/status/303576839132164097

swah 12y ago
Tom's reputation was ruined because he was sexist or something (https://gigaom.com/2014/04/21/githubs-tom-preston-werner-resigns-at-close-of-sexism-investigation/ https://gigaom.com/2014/04/21/githubs-tom-preston-werner-res...)
- wavefunction 12y ago
  The guy's reputation was refactored because he sexually harassed an employee, as found as fact by a court of law. Or something. A reputation should be accurate, should it not?
  - felixgallo 12y ago
    Citation?
  - swombat 12y ago
    > as found as fact by a court of law That is false. There was no court of law. The internal investigation found that there was no substance to the allegations of sexual harassment, but there was evidence of other inappropriate behaviour (mostly letting his wife Theresa use Github resources // pressure employees (though she didn't think of it that way) into helping with her charity project). The inappropriate behaviour doesn't sound like enough to fire a CEO, but I'm guessing they realised that the feminist brigades would not rest until they tasted blood and they decided to do the "roll over and play nice" thing, as you do when you have a fiduciary duty to your investors. Must've been really gutting for Tom to be forcefully removed from his own company on bullshit grounds, though. (before you say "I don't believe Github's account" - the equally valid retort is "I don't believe the accuser's account" - she seems to have had a really huge axe to grind with someone in this)
    - frandroid 12y ago
      > feminist brigades would not rest until they tasted blood I can't get to 500 points fast enough...
      - swombat 12y ago
        Ah, so you're one of these people who flag things you find objectionable on ideological grounds, rather than spam/idiocy/etc? Because dissenting views should be silenced. I'm sure you think you're a nice guy too.
        boracay 12y ago
        If you are trying to correct someones speculation, maybe you shouldn't add your own inflammatory speculation.
        archagon 12y ago
        One might reasonably consider talking about blood-thirsty "feminist brigades" as a form of idiocy.
        swombat 12y ago
        One might not have encountered Shanley Kane and her lot then.
    - swah 12y ago
      At least nowadays its possible to criticize feminists when for abusing their power...
  - wavefunction 12y ago
    @felixgallo The court thing was apparently me getting mixed up with the Tinder executive sexually harassing another woman. I guess TPW was only subject to an "internal probe" by Github after which he stepped down because of his apparently crazy wife's actions getting involved in company affairs. Which is legally sexual harassment as well, even if it never went to court. So I have to honestly retract my statement about him being found to legally be a sexually harasser, which he has not been found to be so. He just appears to be so from everything I've read about the situation.
    - swombat 12y ago
      Thanks for clarifying your statement. Imho it's worth reading through both sides of the case with an open mind. I believe the only sensible conclusion is that at least one side is lying very unashamedly. So on one side you have a multitude of people at Github, including presumably lawyers, HR people, founders, etc. On the other side, you have one person who has allegedly been wronged. We can't know which side is lying, so I won't suggest which one is lying, though obviously I have my opinion on the matter. I will however state where that opinion comes from: I know from reading about Github's culture that it is a very open culture, which seems to show a deep respect for individuals. Creating this sort of culture doesn't happen by accident. It takes a lot of consistent work over a period of years (I know that because I'm trying to create that sort of culture in my company, and it's not easy at all - there are countless reasons to abort and build a standard, closed culture). To me, what is being alleged by the accusing party is not congruent with the kind of character that would build an open culture. Obviously you're free to have the opposite opinion, and I respect your right to form your opinion on this matter based on your own beliefs, preconceptions, etc, just as I base my own opinions on my own beliefs and preconceptions. I think it's important that this respect is mutual, though, and that we both realise we're talking about opinions here, not facts.
  - SamReidHughes 12y ago
    There wasn't even an allegation in that incident that he sexually harassed an employee. So, why are you saying that he did?
- bokonist 12y ago
  There was another side to the story - https://medium.com/@geeekcore1/facts-conveniently-withheld-d96f431f4e8e https://medium.com/@geeekcore1/facts-conveniently-withheld-d... I don't think any of us in the peanut gallery can really know if Tom Preston is a good or bad person, without knowing what really happened from the inside, and without knowing who is lying or spinning and who is telling the truth.
  - swah 12y ago
    I agree, and even if he did something wrong, that shouldn't taint the guy forever. "Linus is rude" is a similar problem.
- facepalm 12y ago
  It was ruined for the people who believed the other side, not for everyone.

by mwhite 12y ago

swah 12y ago

Tom's reputation was ruined because he was sexist or something (https://gigaom.com/2014/04/21/githubs-tom-preston-werner-resigns-at-close-of-sexism-investigation/ https://gigaom.com/2014/04/21/githubs-tom-preston-werner-res...)

wavefunction 12y ago
The guy's reputation was refactored because he sexually harassed an employee, as found as fact by a court of law. Or something. A reputation should be accurate, should it not?
- felixgallo 12y ago
  Citation?
- swombat 12y ago
  > as found as fact by a court of law That is false. There was no court of law. The internal investigation found that there was no substance to the allegations of sexual harassment, but there was evidence of other inappropriate behaviour (mostly letting his wife Theresa use Github resources // pressure employees (though she didn't think of it that way) into helping with her charity project). The inappropriate behaviour doesn't sound like enough to fire a CEO, but I'm guessing they realised that the feminist brigades would not rest until they tasted blood and they decided to do the "roll over and play nice" thing, as you do when you have a fiduciary duty to your investors. Must've been really gutting for Tom to be forcefully removed from his own company on bullshit grounds, though. (before you say "I don't believe Github's account" - the equally valid retort is "I don't believe the accuser's account" - she seems to have had a really huge axe to grind with someone in this)
  - frandroid 12y ago
    > feminist brigades would not rest until they tasted blood I can't get to 500 points fast enough...
    - swombat 12y ago
      Ah, so you're one of these people who flag things you find objectionable on ideological grounds, rather than spam/idiocy/etc? Because dissenting views should be silenced. I'm sure you think you're a nice guy too.
      - boracay 12y ago
        If you are trying to correct someones speculation, maybe you shouldn't add your own inflammatory speculation.
      - archagon 12y ago
        One might reasonably consider talking about blood-thirsty "feminist brigades" as a form of idiocy.
        swombat 12y ago
        One might not have encountered Shanley Kane and her lot then.
  - swah 12y ago
    At least nowadays its possible to criticize feminists when for abusing their power...
- wavefunction 12y ago
  @felixgallo The court thing was apparently me getting mixed up with the Tinder executive sexually harassing another woman. I guess TPW was only subject to an "internal probe" by Github after which he stepped down because of his apparently crazy wife's actions getting involved in company affairs. Which is legally sexual harassment as well, even if it never went to court. So I have to honestly retract my statement about him being found to legally be a sexually harasser, which he has not been found to be so. He just appears to be so from everything I've read about the situation.
  - swombat 12y ago
    Thanks for clarifying your statement. Imho it's worth reading through both sides of the case with an open mind. I believe the only sensible conclusion is that at least one side is lying very unashamedly. So on one side you have a multitude of people at Github, including presumably lawyers, HR people, founders, etc. On the other side, you have one person who has allegedly been wronged. We can't know which side is lying, so I won't suggest which one is lying, though obviously I have my opinion on the matter. I will however state where that opinion comes from: I know from reading about Github's culture that it is a very open culture, which seems to show a deep respect for individuals. Creating this sort of culture doesn't happen by accident. It takes a lot of consistent work over a period of years (I know that because I'm trying to create that sort of culture in my company, and it's not easy at all - there are countless reasons to abort and build a standard, closed culture). To me, what is being alleged by the accusing party is not congruent with the kind of character that would build an open culture. Obviously you're free to have the opposite opinion, and I respect your right to form your opinion on this matter based on your own beliefs, preconceptions, etc, just as I base my own opinions on my own beliefs and preconceptions. I think it's important that this respect is mutual, though, and that we both realise we're talking about opinions here, not facts.
- SamReidHughes 12y ago
  There wasn't even an allegation in that incident that he sexually harassed an employee. So, why are you saying that he did?
bokonist 12y ago
There was another side to the story - https://medium.com/@geeekcore1/facts-conveniently-withheld-d96f431f4e8e https://medium.com/@geeekcore1/facts-conveniently-withheld-d... I don't think any of us in the peanut gallery can really know if Tom Preston is a good or bad person, without knowing what really happened from the inside, and without knowing who is lying or spinning and who is telling the truth.
- swah 12y ago
  I agree, and even if he did something wrong, that shouldn't taint the guy forever. "Linus is rude" is a similar problem.
facepalm 12y ago
It was ruined for the people who believed the other side, not for everyone.