6 ms·

'Being homeless is better than working for Amazon'

62 points by winstonsmith 12y ago

shaftoe 12y ago
They sound like a nut with a grievance. The story is inconsistent. Begging and "writing" is morally superior to being "working poor?" And then they cannot find any other job with their degrees because of their grievance with Amazon? And then they like being homeless because they used to work at a camping store? They cannot accept charity from family but they beg in front of a Whole Foods? If this is the poster child for the anti-Amazon movement, Amazon has nothing to worry about.
- Gigablah 12y ago
  "It didn’t take long for me to realize that I was living a fantasy, thinking that a student of the humanities would be tolerated, and paid decently, in the corporate world of the modern university" "I’ve worked for places to live in Oregon, mostly cooking and feeding families. It was a kind of Maoist re-education program– a little too much like slavery for my comfort." The author's sense of self-entitlement is nauseating. Seriously, slavery? You'd think a humanities student would have at least some basic perspective of the world.
- regency 12y ago
  Can't accept charity from family? What article were you reading? Not the one we're discussing, that's for sure.
bluedino 12y ago
It's interesting to see how certain jobs are thought of over the years. Working in an Amazon warehouse is a pretty average blue-collar job these days. You're a slave to the time clock, you're on your feet all day, walking miles and miles, but other than that there's no real extremes. In every job you're expected to get a # of parts out per hours or ship so many package. But the good thing about an Amazon warehouse, is you're not standing next to a heat-treating oven, sweating your bag off. You're not mixing dangerous chemicals that could poison you and requires you to wear an uncomfortable ventilation system or suit. There are no fiberglass matting slivers to get in your arms or eyes. There are no 20 ton presses that will crush you in the blink of an eye. You're not outside in the freezing cold. You're not standing around in a meat freezer hacking away at a side of beef with a giant knife. Is it the greatest job in the world? No, but there are a limited supply of those and competition for them is very high. Is it worst job? Far from it. And 30 years ago it would have been considered pretty cushy.
- danieldk 12y ago
  Is it worst job? Far from it. And 30 years ago it would have been considered pretty cushy. Just for our information: did you work in an Amazon warehouse?
- pond_lilly 12y ago
  A typical hackernews marie antoinettes' answer. Here plebs, be grateful that you do not inhale asbestos and shut up. How did Silicon Valley get so far removed from reality? Is it what working with inanimate technology does to a human being?
- bronbron 12y ago
  > Working in an Amazon warehouse is a pretty average blue-collar job these days. Eek, I hope not. That doesn't bode well for blue-collar work in America. Working at an amazon warehouse will net you roughly $13/hr according to Glassdoor, which will put you roughly $10k above the poverty line. Unfortunately, outside of skilled trades, blue-collar work in America is slowly disappearing and being replaced with jobs like this. I had a really rough time surviving on $13/hr in college (granted I wasn't working full time), raising a family on that seems damn near impossible.
  - vidarh 12y ago
    Median household income in 2013 in the US was $51,939. For 40 hours a week, 48 weeks a year at $13, your salary would be ca. $25k. A household with two working adults at that kind of salary would fit pretty close to the median.
    - bronbron 12y ago
      Yep! Not a cushy job by itself, by any means. Certainly requires two people working full time, all the time. This is in contrast to 30 years ago, where one working spouse was sufficient, though perhaps not comfortable. This isn't even to mention the costs you're incurring by requiring two working spouses: now childcare becomes a recurring cost, maternity leave needs to be short (or non-existent in the case of paternity leave). Doesn't bode well for blue-collar jobs if warehouse work is the average blue-collar job. Compare this to what I would consider the remaining true "blue-collar" jobs - skilled trades. The median salary is roughly e.g. $52K for a plumber. That household could absorb the cost of only having one working spouse temporarily (or permanently) - the warehouse family really can't.
ig1 12y ago
While there's certainly an issue around working conditions at Amazon and more broadly with the US social safety net this story doesn't feel "real". A quick google reveals the authors bio "I taught ESL in South Korea for more than two years, traveled Asia, been around the Caribbean and zig-zagged the U.S. I worked at the Chicago Board Options Exchange and the Chicago Brauhau." - she also has a degree in Journalism with a focus on news editorial It seems hard to believe someone with that background would be unable to figure out things like food stamps.
- regency 12y ago
  Must be pretty cozy up there in your ivory tower. You've never been faced with the stress of imminent homelessness, I take it. I have. There's a million things coming at you at once, all the while you're trying to keep a straight head while gripped in depression and fear. Please, get a clue.
kaybe 12y ago
I can't help it, as a European I'm always shocked how these things can happen in a rich country like the US. Is it inability to navigate the system (a problem by itself) or is the US social system really that non-existant? I know at least some of the arguments, it just never fails to shock me. (Issues with the behaviour of the writer aside.)
- danieldk 12y ago
  Between Harz IV and European retailers, the difference is unfortunately not that large in some parts of Europe: http://www.thelocal.de/20140427/saab-fighter-jet-deal-up-in-air-ahead-of-swiss-vote http://www.thelocal.de/20140427/saab-fighter-jet-deal-up-in-... http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/17/us-amazon-germany-idUSBREA3G08S20140417 http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/17/us-amazon-germany-...
ape4 12y ago
I'm sure Amazon is already thinking about how to replace "pickers" with robots.
- my_username_is_ 12y ago
  They've been actively trying to do this for at least a couple years now. Amazon acquired robotic warehouse company Kiva systems in March 2012, and I believe that team only works on automating Amazon warehouses now. I believe there was a feature on it on 60 Minutes or Chronicle.
- isu89 12y ago
  Yes this has been building up for years, although their PR states that it won't affect the flesh-and-bone employee numbers: http://www.geekwire.com/2014/amazon-will-10000-robots-warehouses-years-end-10-fold-bezos-says/ http://www.geekwire.com/2014/amazon-will-10000-robots-wareho...
yllus 12y ago
"I became a capitalist. I flew a sign to escape harrowing conditions in Oregon and I arrived in Seattle with nothing. When I landed I saw green. I created carefully crafted signs with cardboard and a Sharpie and, just like that, I was making money again." That's a really curious statement. I suppose that she is succeeding in a form of marketing, and the value she's producing is an emotional salve on those that are wealthier than her and wish to help out or assuage their own guilt?
tsotha 12y ago
Even better would be finding a different job.
blhack 12y ago
If she is making more money being homeless than she was when she was working at Amazon, why hasn't she moved back into an apartment? >I have been published in a scholarly journal and a social-justice oriented website. Ah. >My wallet does not contain a single bill. I need glasses. I need winter clothes. I need cash and an opportunity. Anything! Anything except making $13 an hour taking things off of shelves? I mean...c'mon. Glasses, winter clothes etc. aren't that expensive. Check out coastal.com, go to goodwill. Maybe that just doesn't make as good of a story for "social justice oriented websites"
- regency 12y ago
  Imagine you're a homeless person without clean clothes or credit. Do you think people would want to rent to you? Take the silver spoon out of your mouth and think about it, even for a moment. Also consider that scheduling and making the appointments without a smartphone or transportation would make it incredibly difficult work.
Maro 12y ago
1. She went to school to get a not very competitive degree (journalism?) and unfortunately took out loans to pay for it. It seems she couldn't pay it back, because later she says "my credit is wrecked". 2. It turns out she and her combination of a degree is useless, because she ended up working at Amazon packing boxes. 3. She hated her job, so she ended up quiting. Good! 4. I respect that even after it's not her problem, she stands up against poor working conditions at Amazon by writing articles. 5. It's unclear why she can't find a job after Amazon, or why she is homeless. She writes: "I’ve applied for many jobs, and any prospective employer that runs a Google search of my name can see my discontent with my last employer." But that's bogus, I think many employers outside the tech sector will not Google you. 6. The ending of the article really falls apart for me. She says "I learned to live without money and without a home ... I know how to live outside. I refuse to live within oppressive walls." But then she says "I need cash and an opportunity. Anything!", and later "I became a capitalist." The takeaway of the article for me is that there are probably issues around Amazon's working conditions and that the writer of this article has made some bad decisions that she needs to work out and stop blaming Amazon and whoever else.
- ahomescu1 12y ago
  > It seems she couldn't pay it back, because later she says "my credit is wrecked". Earlier in the article she says "I cashed in on my excellent credit, took out cards, and used them to pay rent and buy food because it would be six months before I could receive my first unemployment compensation check."

62 points by winstonsmith 12y ago

They sound like a nut with a grievance. The story is inconsistent. Begging and "writing" is morally superior to being "working poor?" And then they cannot find any other job with their degrees because of their grievance with Amazon? And then they like being homeless because they used to work at a camping store? They cannot accept charity from family but they beg in front of a Whole Foods? If this is the poster child for the anti-Amazon movement, Amazon has nothing to worry about.

Gigablah 12y ago
"It didn’t take long for me to realize that I was living a fantasy, thinking that a student of the humanities would be tolerated, and paid decently, in the corporate world of the modern university" "I’ve worked for places to live in Oregon, mostly cooking and feeding families. It was a kind of Maoist re-education program– a little too much like slavery for my comfort." The author's sense of self-entitlement is nauseating. Seriously, slavery? You'd think a humanities student would have at least some basic perspective of the world.
regency 12y ago
Can't accept charity from family? What article were you reading? Not the one we're discussing, that's for sure.

bluedino 12y ago

It's interesting to see how certain jobs are thought of over the years. Working in an Amazon warehouse is a pretty average blue-collar job these days. You're a slave to the time clock, you're on your feet all day, walking miles and miles, but other than that there's no real extremes. In every job you're expected to get a # of parts out per hours or ship so many package. But the good thing about an Amazon warehouse, is you're not standing next to a heat-treating oven, sweating your bag off. You're not mixing dangerous chemicals that could poison you and requires you to wear an uncomfortable ventilation system or suit. There are no fiberglass matting slivers to get in your arms or eyes. There are no 20 ton presses that will crush you in the blink of an eye. You're not outside in the freezing cold. You're not standing around in a meat freezer hacking away at a side of beef with a giant knife. Is it the greatest job in the world? No, but there are a limited supply of those and competition for them is very high. Is it worst job? Far from it. And 30 years ago it would have been considered pretty cushy.

danieldk 12y ago
Is it worst job? Far from it. And 30 years ago it would have been considered pretty cushy. Just for our information: did you work in an Amazon warehouse?
pond_lilly 12y ago
A typical hackernews marie antoinettes' answer. Here plebs, be grateful that you do not inhale asbestos and shut up. How did Silicon Valley get so far removed from reality? Is it what working with inanimate technology does to a human being?
bronbron 12y ago
> Working in an Amazon warehouse is a pretty average blue-collar job these days. Eek, I hope not. That doesn't bode well for blue-collar work in America. Working at an amazon warehouse will net you roughly $13/hr according to Glassdoor, which will put you roughly $10k above the poverty line. Unfortunately, outside of skilled trades, blue-collar work in America is slowly disappearing and being replaced with jobs like this. I had a really rough time surviving on $13/hr in college (granted I wasn't working full time), raising a family on that seems damn near impossible.
- vidarh 12y ago
  Median household income in 2013 in the US was $51,939. For 40 hours a week, 48 weeks a year at $13, your salary would be ca. $25k. A household with two working adults at that kind of salary would fit pretty close to the median.
  - bronbron 12y ago
    Yep! Not a cushy job by itself, by any means. Certainly requires two people working full time, all the time. This is in contrast to 30 years ago, where one working spouse was sufficient, though perhaps not comfortable. This isn't even to mention the costs you're incurring by requiring two working spouses: now childcare becomes a recurring cost, maternity leave needs to be short (or non-existent in the case of paternity leave). Doesn't bode well for blue-collar jobs if warehouse work is the average blue-collar job. Compare this to what I would consider the remaining true "blue-collar" jobs - skilled trades. The median salary is roughly e.g. $52K for a plumber. That household could absorb the cost of only having one working spouse temporarily (or permanently) - the warehouse family really can't.

ig1 12y ago

While there's certainly an issue around working conditions at Amazon and more broadly with the US social safety net this story doesn't feel "real". A quick google reveals the authors bio "I taught ESL in South Korea for more than two years, traveled Asia, been around the Caribbean and zig-zagged the U.S. I worked at the Chicago Board Options Exchange and the Chicago Brauhau." - she also has a degree in Journalism with a focus on news editorial It seems hard to believe someone with that background would be unable to figure out things like food stamps.

regency 12y ago
Must be pretty cozy up there in your ivory tower. You've never been faced with the stress of imminent homelessness, I take it. I have. There's a million things coming at you at once, all the while you're trying to keep a straight head while gripped in depression and fear. Please, get a clue.

kaybe 12y ago

I can't help it, as a European I'm always shocked how these things can happen in a rich country like the US. Is it inability to navigate the system (a problem by itself) or is the US social system really that non-existant? I know at least some of the arguments, it just never fails to shock me. (Issues with the behaviour of the writer aside.)

danieldk 12y ago
Between Harz IV and European retailers, the difference is unfortunately not that large in some parts of Europe: http://www.thelocal.de/20140427/saab-fighter-jet-deal-up-in-air-ahead-of-swiss-vote http://www.thelocal.de/20140427/saab-fighter-jet-deal-up-in-... http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/17/us-amazon-germany-idUSBREA3G08S20140417 http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/17/us-amazon-germany-...

ape4 12y ago

I'm sure Amazon is already thinking about how to replace "pickers" with robots.

my_username_is_ 12y ago
They've been actively trying to do this for at least a couple years now. Amazon acquired robotic warehouse company Kiva systems in March 2012, and I believe that team only works on automating Amazon warehouses now. I believe there was a feature on it on 60 Minutes or Chronicle.
isu89 12y ago
Yes this has been building up for years, although their PR states that it won't affect the flesh-and-bone employee numbers: http://www.geekwire.com/2014/amazon-will-10000-robots-warehouses-years-end-10-fold-bezos-says/ http://www.geekwire.com/2014/amazon-will-10000-robots-wareho...

yllus 12y ago

"I became a capitalist. I flew a sign to escape harrowing conditions in Oregon and I arrived in Seattle with nothing. When I landed I saw green. I created carefully crafted signs with cardboard and a Sharpie and, just like that, I was making money again." That's a really curious statement. I suppose that she is succeeding in a form of marketing, and the value she's producing is an emotional salve on those that are wealthier than her and wish to help out or assuage their own guilt?

tsotha 12y ago

Even better would be finding a different job.

blhack 12y ago

If she is making more money being homeless than she was when she was working at Amazon, why hasn't she moved back into an apartment? >I have been published in a scholarly journal and a social-justice oriented website. Ah. >My wallet does not contain a single bill. I need glasses. I need winter clothes. I need cash and an opportunity. Anything! Anything except making $13 an hour taking things off of shelves? I mean...c'mon. Glasses, winter clothes etc. aren't that expensive. Check out coastal.com, go to goodwill. Maybe that just doesn't make as good of a story for "social justice oriented websites"

regency 12y ago
Imagine you're a homeless person without clean clothes or credit. Do you think people would want to rent to you? Take the silver spoon out of your mouth and think about it, even for a moment. Also consider that scheduling and making the appointments without a smartphone or transportation would make it incredibly difficult work.

Maro 12y ago

1. She went to school to get a not very competitive degree (journalism?) and unfortunately took out loans to pay for it. It seems she couldn't pay it back, because later she says "my credit is wrecked". 2. It turns out she and her combination of a degree is useless, because she ended up working at Amazon packing boxes. 3. She hated her job, so she ended up quiting. Good! 4. I respect that even after it's not her problem, she stands up against poor working conditions at Amazon by writing articles. 5. It's unclear why she can't find a job after Amazon, or why she is homeless. She writes: "I’ve applied for many jobs, and any prospective employer that runs a Google search of my name can see my discontent with my last employer." But that's bogus, I think many employers outside the tech sector will not Google you. 6. The ending of the article really falls apart for me. She says "I learned to live without money and without a home ... I know how to live outside. I refuse to live within oppressive walls." But then she says "I need cash and an opportunity. Anything!", and later "I became a capitalist." The takeaway of the article for me is that there are probably issues around Amazon's working conditions and that the writer of this article has made some bad decisions that she needs to work out and stop blaming Amazon and whoever else.

ahomescu1 12y ago
> It seems she couldn't pay it back, because later she says "my credit is wrecked". Earlier in the article she says "I cashed in on my excellent credit, took out cards, and used them to pay rent and buy food because it would be six months before I could receive my first unemployment compensation check."