4 ms·

I know exactly what you mean. But we both know these are very different things. For most people, their tablet and phone works absolutely seemlessly, with driver

I know exactly what you mean. But we both know these are very different things. For most people, their tablet and phone works absolutely seemlessly, with drivers, apps, downloads etc just working they way they want them to. It just never works that way on the Desktop unfort. I know loads of "average" people who have tried to use MINT/Ubuntu but eventually a big chunk end up reaching for Redmond after they spend too long looking at StackExchange trying to figure something out.

SwellJoe 12y ago
It doesn't matter; there are literally more phones and tablets than there are desktop/laptop computers. Desktop/laptop is irrelevant in the future. Chromebook and hybrid tablets are slowly eating into the "laptop" market. Many people will never buy a laptop because their tablet or phone does what they need. I know a lot of people who go weeks between opening their computer, but live on their phone and tablet. Desktop and laptop will be a thing people use at work for a long while, and it'll probably still be ruled by Windows. Creatives and developers will have beefy computers, and they'll probably still be running Windows and Mac OS X predominantly (though I use Fedora, and have never really worked on anything other than a Linux system). For now. I can't predict what will happen on that front, but phones and tablets are encroaching on so many fronts I never would have predicted (I just bought my first tablet last week, and thought they were ridiculous for years even after they'd started taking off).
- esoterae 12y ago
  I take issue with your hypothesis. Tablets and chromebooks have already been around for several years. Why do I still use a desktop for work? Why don't I just ssh everywhere from my eyepad? Because they suck at making me productive. Desktops and actual laptops are not going anywhere, because they run fully featured OSs that people can contribute to, not some nasty walled garden of corporate shrink-wrapped ToS turds and ignored pull requests (if you're so lucky to even come within barfing distance of a FOSS component on lobotomy-hardware). Look, IBM started predicting the death of the desktop, what, 20 years ago? 30? It's not going to happen. Then laptops came around. They're gonna kill the desktop! O noes! Not gonna happen. Ultrabooks are gonna kill laptops! Yeah, maybe.. Depends on how much they wind up resembling good laptops. Starts to sound pretty familiar after a while.
  - SwellJoe 12y ago
    Why do I still use a desktop for work? Please re-read my comment; I've already conceded the workplace will remain a desktop/laptop domain for some time, and that I can't predict when that will change, and for the reasons I mentioned. And, as I said, I don't know how the workplace will play out on the desktop and laptop. I bet it will gradually show declining power for Microsoft and increasing market for Apple and various Linux variants (for different reasons). So, I don't disagree with you. Desktops and laptops will stick around for a long time in some segments, including the workplace. I don't know how long that will last, possibly decades more. But, it doesn't matter; the desktop/laptop is already less important than the phone/table...and Linux won that market. It effectively won "Desktop 2.0".
zanny 12y ago
> after they spend too long looking at StackExchange trying to figure something out. Why are they on Stack Exchange? If they are installing a Linux distro on a Windows computer, then of course you will have an unpleasant experience. If you want to use Ubuntu the right way without having to butt heads with anything, you buy a system from zareason / thinkpenguin / system76. You can / will run into the same "searching the Internet" for problems installing Windows on your custom built gaming rig. Driver bugs, config issues, etc. Except for those you will end up digging through yahoo answers or windows help with even more misinformation and bloat. In the end fundamentally it is not a problem with the Linux desktop. You can use a terminal on Windows as well, but you don't expect to because you bought a Windows computer and expect it to work. The same expectation should be had of prebuilt Ubuntu systems, and I think nowadays it lives up to expectation in my experience.
- bufordsharkley 12y ago
  Cheapest laptop on zareason: $699 Cheapest laptop on thinkpenguin: $599 Cheapest laptop on system76: $799 (unless, of course, I'm missing something) ...I'm running Ubuntu on an ASUS laptop that cost under $400, which worked almost seamlessly, and I installed Mint on my ma's laptop that cost under $400. (That incurred finding a new video driver to avoid running everything in 800x600) I would love to have a Linux-out-of-the-box experience, but the price has to make sense.
  - zanny 12y ago
    I know this is a problem, that is why one of my side jobs is custom building Linux machines locally. I do tech support, and if the client doesn't need Windows specific software or it runs perfectly under Wine I'll set them up with Linux builds and notebooks. I have several Chromebooks I'm versed in reformatting and know they work flawlessly and on what kernel versions that happens. That is not good UX for the average joe, or anyone you are just introducing to Linux. It is a UX fail and ruins impressions when people try to install Linux on arbitrary hardware and have a bad time of it. Yes, if you are a veteran and know what you are doing you can do better than the vendors, but to recommend anything else to a Linux newbie without absolute confidence in comprehensive hardware support is just ruining their first impression.

SwellJoe 12y ago

It doesn't matter; there are literally more phones and tablets than there are desktop/laptop computers. Desktop/laptop is irrelevant in the future. Chromebook and hybrid tablets are slowly eating into the "laptop" market. Many people will never buy a laptop because their tablet or phone does what they need. I know a lot of people who go weeks between opening their computer, but live on their phone and tablet. Desktop and laptop will be a thing people use at work for a long while, and it'll probably still be ruled by Windows. Creatives and developers will have beefy computers, and they'll probably still be running Windows and Mac OS X predominantly (though I use Fedora, and have never really worked on anything other than a Linux system). For now. I can't predict what will happen on that front, but phones and tablets are encroaching on so many fronts I never would have predicted (I just bought my first tablet last week, and thought they were ridiculous for years even after they'd started taking off).

esoterae 12y ago
I take issue with your hypothesis. Tablets and chromebooks have already been around for several years. Why do I still use a desktop for work? Why don't I just ssh everywhere from my eyepad? Because they suck at making me productive. Desktops and actual laptops are not going anywhere, because they run fully featured OSs that people can contribute to, not some nasty walled garden of corporate shrink-wrapped ToS turds and ignored pull requests (if you're so lucky to even come within barfing distance of a FOSS component on lobotomy-hardware). Look, IBM started predicting the death of the desktop, what, 20 years ago? 30? It's not going to happen. Then laptops came around. They're gonna kill the desktop! O noes! Not gonna happen. Ultrabooks are gonna kill laptops! Yeah, maybe.. Depends on how much they wind up resembling good laptops. Starts to sound pretty familiar after a while.
- SwellJoe 12y ago
  Why do I still use a desktop for work? Please re-read my comment; I've already conceded the workplace will remain a desktop/laptop domain for some time, and that I can't predict when that will change, and for the reasons I mentioned. And, as I said, I don't know how the workplace will play out on the desktop and laptop. I bet it will gradually show declining power for Microsoft and increasing market for Apple and various Linux variants (for different reasons). So, I don't disagree with you. Desktops and laptops will stick around for a long time in some segments, including the workplace. I don't know how long that will last, possibly decades more. But, it doesn't matter; the desktop/laptop is already less important than the phone/table...and Linux won that market. It effectively won "Desktop 2.0".

zanny 12y ago

> after they spend too long looking at StackExchange trying to figure something out. Why are they on Stack Exchange? If they are installing a Linux distro on a Windows computer, then of course you will have an unpleasant experience. If you want to use Ubuntu the right way without having to butt heads with anything, you buy a system from zareason / thinkpenguin / system76. You can / will run into the same "searching the Internet" for problems installing Windows on your custom built gaming rig. Driver bugs, config issues, etc. Except for those you will end up digging through yahoo answers or windows help with even more misinformation and bloat. In the end fundamentally it is not a problem with the Linux desktop. You can use a terminal on Windows as well, but you don't expect to because you bought a Windows computer and expect it to work. The same expectation should be had of prebuilt Ubuntu systems, and I think nowadays it lives up to expectation in my experience.

bufordsharkley 12y ago
Cheapest laptop on zareason: $699 Cheapest laptop on thinkpenguin: $599 Cheapest laptop on system76: $799 (unless, of course, I'm missing something) ...I'm running Ubuntu on an ASUS laptop that cost under $400, which worked almost seamlessly, and I installed Mint on my ma's laptop that cost under $400. (That incurred finding a new video driver to avoid running everything in 800x600) I would love to have a Linux-out-of-the-box experience, but the price has to make sense.
- zanny 12y ago
  I know this is a problem, that is why one of my side jobs is custom building Linux machines locally. I do tech support, and if the client doesn't need Windows specific software or it runs perfectly under Wine I'll set them up with Linux builds and notebooks. I have several Chromebooks I'm versed in reformatting and know they work flawlessly and on what kernel versions that happens. That is not good UX for the average joe, or anyone you are just introducing to Linux. It is a UX fail and ruins impressions when people try to install Linux on arbitrary hardware and have a bad time of it. Yes, if you are a veteran and know what you are doing you can do better than the vendors, but to recommend anything else to a Linux newbie without absolute confidence in comprehensive hardware support is just ruining their first impression.