9 ms·

I am from Bell County, Kentucky, ranked 3110 out of 3135 counties. I no longer live there, but my parents do. I was there just yesterday for Thanksgiving. It m

by valar_m 12y ago

I am from Bell County, Kentucky, ranked 3110 out of 3135 counties. I no longer live there, but my parents do. I was there just yesterday for Thanksgiving. It may be tempting to dismiss the problems plaguing this region as being self-inflicted, a mere product of backward ways and a collective refusal to catch up. These problems, however, are infinitely more complex than that. Countless politicians at every level of government have tried to find a solution.[0] In the end, they all failed. It occurs to me as I type this that I don't have a precise thesis for my comment, other than to say this: It is not easy. If it were easy to fix, we would have. [0] http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=9518 http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=9518

gghootch 12y ago
This report reminds me of a passage in "Thinking Fast and Slow" by Daniel Kahneman. Prestigious foundations such as the Gates Foundation pumped millions (billions?) of dollars into smaller scale education because a report identified that the worst performing schools had large classrooms in poor, rural counties. Much later, a second review of the data revealed that the best primary schools had large classrooms in poor, rural counties. The results were merely statistical outliers caused by small sample data. It would not surprise me if the easiest places to live have identical demographics and characteristics as the hardest places to live. The correlation might be dual, but the causation is near impossible to identify. Edit: long term memory fail.
- mjklin 12y ago
  That book is by Kahneman, not Pinker
- crabasa 12y ago
  > It would not surprise me if the easiest places to live have identical demographics and characteristics as the hardest places to live. I gather you haven't travelled much. The difference between poor scoring places (pick a town in Kentucky) and high scoring ones (Seattle for example) is absolutely huge. Almost to the point of feeling like being in a different country.
  - gghootch 12y ago
    Considering I am a European that has only traveled to the USA's west coast once in his life, you are right in this sense.
    - mnarayan01 12y ago
      > It would not surprise me if the easiest places to live have identical demographics and characteristics as the hardest places to live. I think a big part of the problem is that the article explicitly uses "demographics and characteristics" to determine difficulty of living, so the above statement is false by definition. I think you do make a good point though, unfortunately, I'm not sure how to phrase it any better.
pXMzR2A 12y ago
> It may be tempting to dismiss the problems plaguing this region as being self-inflicted, a mere product of backward ways and a collective refusal to catch up. Neoliberalism and individualism are too popular(ly convenient) in this country, so much so that even if you had > a precise [and uniquely substantiated] thesis for [your] comment , we would have found a clipart way to dismiss it using the very perspectives you said are uninformed.
lisper 12y ago
> Countless politicians at every level of government have tried to find a solution.[0] In the end, they all failed. You can lead a horse to water... As long as people insist on believing that the earth is 6000 years old, that lowering taxes on rich people is going to make their own lives better, and that the best way to preserve freedom and peace is unfettered access to firearms, there is only so much you can do for them. At the end of the day you simply can't help someone who steadfastly refuses to help themselves.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- refurb 12y ago
  What a ridiculous comment. So if they don't subscribe to liberal values they deserve their fate? You sounds like lke the rednecks i've met. "Those dumb city folks just don't know any better!"
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - lisper 12y ago
    Science is not a liberal value.
    - refurb 12y ago
      Looking down on folks who don't think like you apparently is.
      - toomuchtodo 12y ago
        Facts are non-negotiable.
        refurb 12y ago
        Treating people with respect should also be non-negotiable. I'm always amazed at the folks who are "open-minded" and at the same time feel a need to "correct" anyone who doesn't think the same way they do. What is the harm if folks have different beliefs than you?
evantish 12y ago
"I no longer live there..." Not saying it isn't a complex problem, but you're not exactly helping to enrich the area and stem the likely brain drain. And, I am not judging you or others like you. It's completely rational to avoid suffering and seek out an environment where you can thrive. Diffusing positive cultural influencers instead of hoarding them in cities or places like SV would probably help. But, I really doubt that's a practical solution. It may just be that we need to build out from the bright spots rather than spread ourselves too thin with a sweeping social experiment. We may be stuck with deserts of backwardness for a while. "State choice" and urban migration strikes me as similar (albeit with a slower generational period) to school choice. Some areas will attract more "good" students and teachers while others will slouch and drag behind in a fractal failure. How far are we obligated to go? Similar questions came up in the wake of Katrina. Personally, I think replacing vicious cycles with virtuous ones will almost always be a good investment.

by valar_m 12y ago

gghootch 12y ago

This report reminds me of a passage in "Thinking Fast and Slow" by Daniel Kahneman. Prestigious foundations such as the Gates Foundation pumped millions (billions?) of dollars into smaller scale education because a report identified that the worst performing schools had large classrooms in poor, rural counties. Much later, a second review of the data revealed that the best primary schools had large classrooms in poor, rural counties. The results were merely statistical outliers caused by small sample data. It would not surprise me if the easiest places to live have identical demographics and characteristics as the hardest places to live. The correlation might be dual, but the causation is near impossible to identify. Edit: long term memory fail.

mjklin 12y ago
That book is by Kahneman, not Pinker
crabasa 12y ago
> It would not surprise me if the easiest places to live have identical demographics and characteristics as the hardest places to live. I gather you haven't travelled much. The difference between poor scoring places (pick a town in Kentucky) and high scoring ones (Seattle for example) is absolutely huge. Almost to the point of feeling like being in a different country.
- gghootch 12y ago
  Considering I am a European that has only traveled to the USA's west coast once in his life, you are right in this sense.
  - mnarayan01 12y ago
    > It would not surprise me if the easiest places to live have identical demographics and characteristics as the hardest places to live. I think a big part of the problem is that the article explicitly uses "demographics and characteristics" to determine difficulty of living, so the above statement is false by definition. I think you do make a good point though, unfortunately, I'm not sure how to phrase it any better.

pXMzR2A 12y ago

> It may be tempting to dismiss the problems plaguing this region as being self-inflicted, a mere product of backward ways and a collective refusal to catch up. Neoliberalism and individualism are too popular(ly convenient) in this country, so much so that even if you had > a precise [and uniquely substantiated] thesis for [your] comment , we would have found a clipart way to dismiss it using the very perspectives you said are uninformed.

lisper 12y ago

> Countless politicians at every level of government have tried to find a solution.[0] In the end, they all failed. You can lead a horse to water... As long as people insist on believing that the earth is 6000 years old, that lowering taxes on rich people is going to make their own lives better, and that the best way to preserve freedom and peace is unfettered access to firearms, there is only so much you can do for them. At the end of the day you simply can't help someone who steadfastly refuses to help themselves.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
refurb 12y ago
What a ridiculous comment. So if they don't subscribe to liberal values they deserve their fate? You sounds like lke the rednecks i've met. "Those dumb city folks just don't know any better!"
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- lisper 12y ago
  Science is not a liberal value.
  - refurb 12y ago
    Looking down on folks who don't think like you apparently is.
    - toomuchtodo 12y ago
      Facts are non-negotiable.
      - refurb 12y ago
        Treating people with respect should also be non-negotiable. I'm always amazed at the folks who are "open-minded" and at the same time feel a need to "correct" anyone who doesn't think the same way they do. What is the harm if folks have different beliefs than you?

evantish 12y ago

"I no longer live there..." Not saying it isn't a complex problem, but you're not exactly helping to enrich the area and stem the likely brain drain. And, I am not judging you or others like you. It's completely rational to avoid suffering and seek out an environment where you can thrive. Diffusing positive cultural influencers instead of hoarding them in cities or places like SV would probably help. But, I really doubt that's a practical solution. It may just be that we need to build out from the bright spots rather than spread ourselves too thin with a sweeping social experiment. We may be stuck with deserts of backwardness for a while. "State choice" and urban migration strikes me as similar (albeit with a slower generational period) to school choice. Some areas will attract more "good" students and teachers while others will slouch and drag behind in a fractal failure. How far are we obligated to go? Similar questions came up in the wake of Katrina. Personally, I think replacing vicious cycles with virtuous ones will almost always be a good investment.