3 ms·

How much would it really cost to feed and house a person for a year? In real terms I can't imagine it's that much. But I suppose it's been tried before probably

by jqm 12y ago

How much would it really cost to feed and house a person for a year? In real terms I can't imagine it's that much. But I suppose it's been tried before probably with little success. (Destroyed projects and bloated government contracts come to mind.) It seems that something should absolutely be done but I sure don't know what. An elderly lady told me once that we are supposed to help the less fortunate, and she tried her best, but it would make it a lot easier for her if some of the less fortunate would help themselves a little. This comment has really stuck with me and kind of illustrates what I see as the problem. However certainly misfortune can happen to anyone, and we should be civilized enough at this point to not allow this kind of suffering to occur in our society. It's a problem that does need a real solution.

tomjen3 12y ago
Food stamps are about 4 usd/person and some people have completed the challenge to live only on food stamps, so it would presumably be easier to do so in bulk. Then you need a place to sleep, but that doesn't mean an appartment or room, it could as easily be a disused shipping container with bunk beds. Lets assume that we put 4 rows of bunkbeds into each 40 row shipping container (that leaves space for a small closet next to the beds, assuming the beds are 4 feet wide, with space at the other end to get in/out of the bed). I have no idea what a used shipping container cost or what a bunk bed costs. There is a huge variety in land cost, so lets just take the cheapest possible option: not currently used government land. We can assume that we can get this for free, since this will either be a government project or payed for entirely by the government. Heating costs can likely wise be minimized by putting the camp near some place that is neither going to become very warm or very cold. We are going to need toilets and baths, probably something like a toilet for every 5 to 6 people and a shower for every 10 to 20. I have no idea what a toilet costs, but a shipping container with a drain in the bottom and 30 shower heads would be largely dominated by the cost of the shipping container and the cost of the water. You will need somebody to cook the food and some place to cook it, but it could easily be eaten in tents - these would be cheaper than the shipping containers. The tents could also be used as a place to hang out when food is not served and could provide a variety of improvement activities, such as reading/storytelling. You will want to have a library attached which could be made of, that is right, shipping containers and you may want to have a small school or else a school bus (there is going to be kids there). The cost of a shipping container (according to a handy, 11 steps wikihow guide http://www.wikihow.com/Buy-a-Used-Shipping-Container http://www.wikihow.com/Buy-a-Used-Shipping-Container) runs from 1000 to 8000 usd, lets call it 4000, a quick google search suggest a bunk bed runs a little over 200 usd, which would give us a capital cost of sleeping areas of 1200 for the beds, say 1000 for the closets and 4000 for the container for 12 people, i.e about 520 usd/person. Lets assume the bathrooms, toilets and tents cost the same, so that is about 1000 usd. We assumed the food was 4 usd/person/day, but that does not include deoderants, tampoons, showgel, toothbrushes, etc. so lets make this 12 usd/day. Adding everything up with have capital costs of a bit more than 1000 usd/person in the best case and 360 usd running cost/person/month. That is strictly warehousing them, though for most I doubt it makes sense to retrain them.
- jqm 12y ago
  Ya, that's what it seems it should be... But then you have to hire contractors to do all that. And managers to manage them. And managers to manage the managers. And pensions for all the inspectors and managers. Or the government could try to do it directly. Either way... the real cost gets significant additions. Along with a higher probability of failure. You need security. Some of these people aren't safe for others to be with. Liability. So you need insurance. And lawyers. Lots of lawyers so you don't get sued as much when someone cuts themselves on a shipping container. So you can probably 5-10x the real cost and still run into budget problems. So people keep suffering. That's why I don't know what the answer is but I wish I did.
  - tomjen3 12y ago
    I assumed, although I didn't state it, that we could deny people who were a danger to others access. This also doesn't include medical care because these people almost certainly already have it through other the government programs. And yeah I didn't include managers or other employees salaries. We could save much of that by requiring that the people there worked a few hours a week or by running some traning program in the kitchen and get cheap labour that way. I also assumed non-stupidty by the government as we were trying to find out what it cost to house them, not what they could drive the price up to.
humanrebar 12y ago
> How much would it really cost to feed and house a person for a year? It depends. What kind of mental health issues (including substance abuse) does that person have? Keep in mind that people also need security. Food and shelter aren't enough. They also need their belongings to be secure for long enough to build up a minimal amount of personal equity. You can't make it out of poverty if you're perpetually under the threat of robbery, abuse, and worse.
alecco 12y ago
Give them jobs, not housing, handouts or charity.
kaitai 12y ago
An interesting question. In some cases it seems to be cheaper to house the homeless than pay for emergency medical and police services. The Robert Wood Johnson Foundation spent some money researching housing of homeless alcoholics in Seattle and found a monthly per-month savings of $2,500, a reduction of 53 percent compared to previous spending: http://www.rwjf.org/en/about-rwjf/newsroom/newsroom-content/2009/03/housing-for-homeless-alcoholics-can-reduce-costs-to-taxpayers.html http://www.rwjf.org/en/about-rwjf/newsroom/newsroom-content/... In Seattle I guess it costs about $13,000 to house a homeless person for a year. In Florida it apparently costs about $10,000/year to house a homeless person and provide some job services; it cost about $31,000 a year to leave them homeless and provide emergency police and medical responses at the current rate. http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/05/27/3441772/florida-homeless-financial-study/ http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/05/27/3441772/florida-... Here's an article from Fox (?!): http://www.foxbusiness.com/economy-policy/2014/07/07/how-housing-for-chronically-homeless-may-save-taxpayers-money/ http://www.foxbusiness.com/economy-policy/2014/07/07/how-hou...

by jqm 12y ago

tomjen3 12y ago

Food stamps are about 4 usd/person and some people have completed the challenge to live only on food stamps, so it would presumably be easier to do so in bulk. Then you need a place to sleep, but that doesn't mean an appartment or room, it could as easily be a disused shipping container with bunk beds. Lets assume that we put 4 rows of bunkbeds into each 40 row shipping container (that leaves space for a small closet next to the beds, assuming the beds are 4 feet wide, with space at the other end to get in/out of the bed). I have no idea what a used shipping container cost or what a bunk bed costs. There is a huge variety in land cost, so lets just take the cheapest possible option: not currently used government land. We can assume that we can get this for free, since this will either be a government project or payed for entirely by the government. Heating costs can likely wise be minimized by putting the camp near some place that is neither going to become very warm or very cold. We are going to need toilets and baths, probably something like a toilet for every 5 to 6 people and a shower for every 10 to 20. I have no idea what a toilet costs, but a shipping container with a drain in the bottom and 30 shower heads would be largely dominated by the cost of the shipping container and the cost of the water. You will need somebody to cook the food and some place to cook it, but it could easily be eaten in tents - these would be cheaper than the shipping containers. The tents could also be used as a place to hang out when food is not served and could provide a variety of improvement activities, such as reading/storytelling. You will want to have a library attached which could be made of, that is right, shipping containers and you may want to have a small school or else a school bus (there is going to be kids there). The cost of a shipping container (according to a handy, 11 steps wikihow guide http://www.wikihow.com/Buy-a-Used-Shipping-Container http://www.wikihow.com/Buy-a-Used-Shipping-Container) runs from 1000 to 8000 usd, lets call it 4000, a quick google search suggest a bunk bed runs a little over 200 usd, which would give us a capital cost of sleeping areas of 1200 for the beds, say 1000 for the closets and 4000 for the container for 12 people, i.e about 520 usd/person. Lets assume the bathrooms, toilets and tents cost the same, so that is about 1000 usd. We assumed the food was 4 usd/person/day, but that does not include deoderants, tampoons, showgel, toothbrushes, etc. so lets make this 12 usd/day. Adding everything up with have capital costs of a bit more than 1000 usd/person in the best case and 360 usd running cost/person/month. That is strictly warehousing them, though for most I doubt it makes sense to retrain them.

jqm 12y ago
Ya, that's what it seems it should be... But then you have to hire contractors to do all that. And managers to manage them. And managers to manage the managers. And pensions for all the inspectors and managers. Or the government could try to do it directly. Either way... the real cost gets significant additions. Along with a higher probability of failure. You need security. Some of these people aren't safe for others to be with. Liability. So you need insurance. And lawyers. Lots of lawyers so you don't get sued as much when someone cuts themselves on a shipping container. So you can probably 5-10x the real cost and still run into budget problems. So people keep suffering. That's why I don't know what the answer is but I wish I did.
- tomjen3 12y ago
  I assumed, although I didn't state it, that we could deny people who were a danger to others access. This also doesn't include medical care because these people almost certainly already have it through other the government programs. And yeah I didn't include managers or other employees salaries. We could save much of that by requiring that the people there worked a few hours a week or by running some traning program in the kitchen and get cheap labour that way. I also assumed non-stupidty by the government as we were trying to find out what it cost to house them, not what they could drive the price up to.

humanrebar 12y ago

> How much would it really cost to feed and house a person for a year? It depends. What kind of mental health issues (including substance abuse) does that person have? Keep in mind that people also need security. Food and shelter aren't enough. They also need their belongings to be secure for long enough to build up a minimal amount of personal equity. You can't make it out of poverty if you're perpetually under the threat of robbery, abuse, and worse.

alecco 12y ago

Give them jobs, not housing, handouts or charity.

kaitai 12y ago

An interesting question. In some cases it seems to be cheaper to house the homeless than pay for emergency medical and police services. The Robert Wood Johnson Foundation spent some money researching housing of homeless alcoholics in Seattle and found a monthly per-month savings of $2,500, a reduction of 53 percent compared to previous spending: http://www.rwjf.org/en/about-rwjf/newsroom/newsroom-content/2009/03/housing-for-homeless-alcoholics-can-reduce-costs-to-taxpayers.html http://www.rwjf.org/en/about-rwjf/newsroom/newsroom-content/... In Seattle I guess it costs about $13,000 to house a homeless person for a year. In Florida it apparently costs about $10,000/year to house a homeless person and provide some job services; it cost about $31,000 a year to leave them homeless and provide emergency police and medical responses at the current rate. http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/05/27/3441772/florida-homeless-financial-study/ http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/05/27/3441772/florida-... Here's an article from Fox (?!): http://www.foxbusiness.com/economy-policy/2014/07/07/how-housing-for-chronically-homeless-may-save-taxpayers-money/ http://www.foxbusiness.com/economy-policy/2014/07/07/how-hou...