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The future of programming should be one language for all layers of the stack, from the database to the model to the UI. I think that hints that it should be a

The future of programming should be one language for all layers of the stack, from the database to the model to the UI. I think that hints that it should be a form of declarative. And if it's declarative, it should be focused on managing state. And if it's a thin syntactical representation of its VM, instructions/code could be interpreted immediately at entry and be managed as state, so you wouldn't be working with a text file but querying the AST equivalent of what you wrote. And if you do that, you can create the management tools and structures to truly understand and manage both data and code. And if we do that, the future of programming would look less like today's mangle of a thousand wires to something more like sculpting and architecture.

aikah 12y ago
> The future of programming should be one language for all layers of the stack, Programmers will never agree on what this language should be.Ever. Because different tasks require different features,a language that tries to have all these features will be regarded as a mess,and disliked because of it.
- david927 12y ago
  Because you're talking about looking at it as data, you can get different views. It's all about viewing and working with the appropriate layer. We do it with civil engineering, we do it with drawing, we even do it with accounting systems. It's not about being all things to all people at all times, but about being the layer of the appropriate things for the appropriate people at the appropriate time. When we look at code as data, we can look at code in context.
sklogic 12y ago
A curiously limited view of what programming is. Outside of the CRUD world not many things can be described as "database", "model" or "UI".
creadee 12y ago
> The future of programming should be one language for all layers of the stack, from the database to the model to the UI. http://www.red-lang.org/ http://www.red-lang.org/ (a Rebol-like language) promises to do that. And perhaps right down to the OS (if I've understood it correctly).
- draegtun 12y ago
  Yep... Red can compiled down to Red/System or be interpreted (with JIT). Red/System can be compiled down to machine code, bytecode (for select VMs) and I believe Javascript. Red claims to be the world’s first full-stack language - http://www.red-lang.org/p/contributions.html http://www.red-lang.org/p/contributions.html
  - david927 12y ago
    The problem is that it's still letting hardware dictate the terms. There should be a meeting of the two: the VM. Anything that compiles to assembly is doomed to be a reheating of C leftovers.
    - draegtun 12y ago
      > Anything that compiles to assembly is doomed to be a reheating of C leftovers. Thats what Red/System is aiming at, ie. an alternative to C - http://static.red-lang.org/red-system-specs-light.html#section-1 http://static.red-lang.org/red-system-specs-light.html#secti... PS. Hmmm... who/why downvoted my parent comment? The comment is factually correct, non-opinionated and with no added embellishments :(
14113 12y ago
The "one langauge for the whole stack" is being developed (for the web at least) through the language Links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_(programming_language) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_(programming_language) http://groups.inf.ed.ac.uk/links/ http://groups.inf.ed.ac.uk/links/
david927 12y ago
Something like this: http://vimeo.com/107069470 http://vimeo.com/107069470

aikah 12y ago

> The future of programming should be one language for all layers of the stack, Programmers will never agree on what this language should be.Ever. Because different tasks require different features,a language that tries to have all these features will be regarded as a mess,and disliked because of it.

david927 12y ago
Because you're talking about looking at it as data, you can get different views. It's all about viewing and working with the appropriate layer. We do it with civil engineering, we do it with drawing, we even do it with accounting systems. It's not about being all things to all people at all times, but about being the layer of the appropriate things for the appropriate people at the appropriate time. When we look at code as data, we can look at code in context.

sklogic 12y ago

A curiously limited view of what programming is. Outside of the CRUD world not many things can be described as "database", "model" or "UI".

creadee 12y ago

> The future of programming should be one language for all layers of the stack, from the database to the model to the UI. http://www.red-lang.org/ http://www.red-lang.org/ (a Rebol-like language) promises to do that. And perhaps right down to the OS (if I've understood it correctly).

draegtun 12y ago
Yep... Red can compiled down to Red/System or be interpreted (with JIT). Red/System can be compiled down to machine code, bytecode (for select VMs) and I believe Javascript. Red claims to be the world’s first full-stack language - http://www.red-lang.org/p/contributions.html http://www.red-lang.org/p/contributions.html
- david927 12y ago
  The problem is that it's still letting hardware dictate the terms. There should be a meeting of the two: the VM. Anything that compiles to assembly is doomed to be a reheating of C leftovers.
  - draegtun 12y ago
    > Anything that compiles to assembly is doomed to be a reheating of C leftovers. Thats what Red/System is aiming at, ie. an alternative to C - http://static.red-lang.org/red-system-specs-light.html#section-1 http://static.red-lang.org/red-system-specs-light.html#secti... PS. Hmmm... who/why downvoted my parent comment? The comment is factually correct, non-opinionated and with no added embellishments :(

14113 12y ago

The "one langauge for the whole stack" is being developed (for the web at least) through the language Links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_(programming_language) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_(programming_language) http://groups.inf.ed.ac.uk/links/ http://groups.inf.ed.ac.uk/links/

david927 12y ago

Something like this: http://vimeo.com/107069470 http://vimeo.com/107069470