7 ms·

IO.js – Evented I/O for V8 javascript

174 points by owenwil 12y ago

Skywing 12y ago
With what purpose? What's the significance of this? node is also node with many of the key contributors.
stormbrew 12y ago
40 minutes, 8 points, got to the front page, and... why? Is there a story behind this fork?
- benatkin 12y ago
  There doesn't appear to be much of one, yet. The latest commit by indutny was just a commit to node that the owner of the iojs GitHub organization pushed to GitHub. There are no public members of the iojs organization. Even the name of the repo, "evented I/O for v8 javascript" is the same. All that's been introduced here is a new name, io.js.
  - denisw 12y ago
    Looking at the v0.12 branches of both iojs/iojs and joyent/node, it doesn't seem to me that idutny's latest commit (updating OpenSSL to 1.0.1j) was a commit to Node proper. I also can't find that commit in any other branch of Node, or on idutny's personal copy of Node (idutny/node). In fact, the history of Node and IO.js seem to completely diverge after Nov 21, with no overlap between the commits or contributors. To me, this seems to clearly indicate that the committors in these last IO.js commits are also the people behind that effort. Am I missing something?
  - cwmma 12y ago
    from the issues that have been opened [1] and closed [2] it looks like indutny, jonathanong, and rvagg are involved, aka all people involved with node forward 1. https://github.com/iojs/io.js/issues/5 https://github.com/iojs/io.js/issues/5 2. https://github.com/iojs/io.js/issues/7 https://github.com/iojs/io.js/issues/7
    - benatkin 12y ago
      Yes this appears to be the main thing at play right now. A small number of serious node hackers are contributing to io.js. This could be big, but it's too early for me to tell.
randall 12y ago
Can someone tl;dr me the gist of everyone's beef with joyent? I've been hearing about a fork but haven't understood / seen why people feel like the fork is necessary.
- shinko 12y ago
  The same reason anyone forks: some core developers are not happy with the way development is headed. The reasons are myriad, both technically and politically, and you probably won't understand them unless you engage. If they weren't, we wouldn't be seeing something as drastic as a fork.
- jared314 12y ago
  Joyent is accused of: 1. Fixating on platform stability over project evolution 2. Ignoring the community on project direction 3. Preserving public image over project committers 4. Being a total square NOTE: I am against the fork.
  - girvo 12y ago
    > 1. Fixating on platform stability over project evolution That's... hardly a bad thing, in my humble opinion. The other language I use at work, PHP, is a case-study in what happens when you "evolve" a project willy-nilly with little regard to platform stability. Nowadays, it's better, because the community has become more involved in the process, so I can see what #2 and #3 are Bad Things™ however.
    - k__ 12y ago
      PHP? I had the feeling that much evolution happend from 1 to 5 but not much afterwards :\
      - mappu 12y ago
        5.3 is basically a whole new language. Development is pretty quick and regular ever since 5.4 and the new RFC process.
hayksaakian 12y ago
Can one of the 8 (so far) up-voters tell me whats interesting here? The linked readme tells little. ----- Now 25 pts with just as much explanation.... ----- As of 48 points, this (1) is the most relvant and informative explanation, but still has nothing to do directly with the linked OP. (1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8669743 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8669743
- elisee 12y ago
  Compare with https://github.com/joyent/node https://github.com/joyent/node, similar readme and commit numbers. Looks like a node.js fork. (EDIT: maybe you already understood that, I thought it might have been a different thing from node.js altogether until I saw the repositories shared a README/history)
_almosnow 12y ago
With the few forks and stances that everyone is taking now, I really hope that an amazing project like Node doesn't get f* up by becoming fragmented and multiple different "versions" appearing.
- Skywing 12y ago
  sigh time to start looking into Go
  - logicchains 12y ago
    Or Dart. It's a lot closer to node and JS than Go (it uses asynchronous IO), and can more easily be used across both the server and client (Go's compilation-to-Javascript support is less developed). It's also surprisingly fast for a dynamic language, and has the generics Go lacks.
    - Bahamut 12y ago
      Should also mention that Dart is faster than Node - it benefits from Google's development of V8, and the language design was built for optimization while taking a lot of the good parts from JS.
      - Pharohbot 12y ago
        V8 Turbofan using asm.js AOT that is in beta right now otherwise.
- espadrine 12y ago
  The most valuable piece that came out of the node project is libuv, and that is certainly not going away.
mappu 12y ago
Node is the obvious leader amongst V8 shells, but there's also - https://github.com/attractivechaos/k8 https://github.com/attractivechaos/k8 and discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7913950 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7913950 - http://silkjs.net/ http://silkjs.net/ - https://code.google.com/p/teajs/ https://code.google.com/p/teajs/ - https://github.com/samlecuyer/sorrow.js https://github.com/samlecuyer/sorrow.js - https://github.com/tlrobinson/narwhal https://github.com/tlrobinson/narwhal - d8 (bundled with v8 source) Not counting other CommonJS-compatible platforms, or javascript shells using engines other than V8, or server-side javascript application frameworks
tjholowaychuk 12y ago
Wahoo, hope people are more open to change this time around – hope it works out!
thomasfromcdnjs 12y ago
From my Twitter feed... "Looks like a Node.js fork called io.js is happening, with some of Node's key contributors. 😮 http://github.com/iojs/io.js http://github.com/iojs/io.js " https://twitter.com/devongovett/status/538131893682569216 https://twitter.com/devongovett/status/538131893682569216
scljstcwombat 12y ago
It's raining node forks: https://github.com/io-forward/io-forward https://github.com/io-forward/io-forward
- throwaway90447 12y ago
  Fork Yeah!
sreejithr 12y ago
10000+ commits and 574 contributors. Boy, this has to be good. Can somebody explain?
- ykl 12y ago
  It's a fork of node.js
jpincheira 12y ago
hey, catchy name, for some ms I thought of iOS... maybe it's just me doing too much iOS development in the last months.
misterdai 12y ago
I'm finding the situation with Node.js quite frustrating. There doesn't appear to be much communication as to what's going on with the project. It's also odd that the Node Advisory Board was supposed to meet on the 20th (2014-11-20). Chris Williams tweeted that it was about to start [1] but no minutes have appeared and I can't find any mention of what happened during the meeting. [1] https://nodejs.org/advisory-board/2014-11-06/minutes.html#minutes_md_next_meeting https://nodejs.org/advisory-board/2014-11-06/minutes.html#mi...)
- voodootikigod 12y ago
  Sorry for the delay, it takes a while to polish the minutes and then gain consensus from the rest of the group about the final minutes. The US Holiday didn't help much either (as well as finalizing RobotsConf, life, etc) They are here now: https://github.com/joyent/nodejs-advisory-board/blob/master/meetings/2014-11-20/minutes.md https://github.com/joyent/nodejs-advisory-board/blob/master/...
  - misterdai 12y ago
    Thanks Chris, probably read into the delay a little just because I could find any mention of the meeting actually taking place or not, apart from your tweet about it starting. Understandable though with all the other stuff you've got going on. Cheers :)
kylequest 12y ago
If you are curious about node-forward vs io.js take a look at the end of this page http://nodeforward.org http://nodeforward.org to see how they are related :-)
jackbravo 12y ago
@Mikeal has a couple of posts on the subject: - https://medium.com/@mikeal/on-corporate-ownership-of-open-source-786ebd15847e https://medium.com/@mikeal/on-corporate-ownership-of-open-so... - https://medium.com/node-js-javascript/fragmentation-7e87d28f60fe https://medium.com/node-js-javascript/fragmentation-7e87d28f...
- scljstcwombat 12y ago
  Ah yes, Mikeal, whose capability of double-think is so well-developed that he can claim to not understand what "fragmentation" means while at the same time advocating to do precisely that - https://github.com/iojs/io.js/issues/9 https://github.com/iojs/io.js/issues/9 I swear Chris Dickinson is the only sane one in this whole mess. Possibly because he's new. Possibly because his employer is the only one involved that's not beholden to VC money and expectations of return.
almogK 12y ago
I think it comes down to politics, I feel its always better to have a company run and support an open source framework as long as their listen to the community and letting the community be a part of the framework.
elixir1 12y ago
As a dev do we continue to use node or change to the fork?

174 points by owenwil 12y ago

Skywing 12y ago

With what purpose? What's the significance of this? node is also node with many of the key contributors.

stormbrew 12y ago

40 minutes, 8 points, got to the front page, and... why? Is there a story behind this fork?

benatkin 12y ago
There doesn't appear to be much of one, yet. The latest commit by indutny was just a commit to node that the owner of the iojs GitHub organization pushed to GitHub. There are no public members of the iojs organization. Even the name of the repo, "evented I/O for v8 javascript" is the same. All that's been introduced here is a new name, io.js.
- denisw 12y ago
  Looking at the v0.12 branches of both iojs/iojs and joyent/node, it doesn't seem to me that idutny's latest commit (updating OpenSSL to 1.0.1j) was a commit to Node proper. I also can't find that commit in any other branch of Node, or on idutny's personal copy of Node (idutny/node). In fact, the history of Node and IO.js seem to completely diverge after Nov 21, with no overlap between the commits or contributors. To me, this seems to clearly indicate that the committors in these last IO.js commits are also the people behind that effort. Am I missing something?
- cwmma 12y ago
  from the issues that have been opened [1] and closed [2] it looks like indutny, jonathanong, and rvagg are involved, aka all people involved with node forward 1. https://github.com/iojs/io.js/issues/5 https://github.com/iojs/io.js/issues/5 2. https://github.com/iojs/io.js/issues/7 https://github.com/iojs/io.js/issues/7
  - benatkin 12y ago
    Yes this appears to be the main thing at play right now. A small number of serious node hackers are contributing to io.js. This could be big, but it's too early for me to tell.

randall 12y ago

Can someone tl;dr me the gist of everyone's beef with joyent? I've been hearing about a fork but haven't understood / seen why people feel like the fork is necessary.

shinko 12y ago
The same reason anyone forks: some core developers are not happy with the way development is headed. The reasons are myriad, both technically and politically, and you probably won't understand them unless you engage. If they weren't, we wouldn't be seeing something as drastic as a fork.
jared314 12y ago
Joyent is accused of: 1. Fixating on platform stability over project evolution 2. Ignoring the community on project direction 3. Preserving public image over project committers 4. Being a total square NOTE: I am against the fork.
- girvo 12y ago
  > 1. Fixating on platform stability over project evolution That's... hardly a bad thing, in my humble opinion. The other language I use at work, PHP, is a case-study in what happens when you "evolve" a project willy-nilly with little regard to platform stability. Nowadays, it's better, because the community has become more involved in the process, so I can see what #2 and #3 are Bad Things™ however.
  - k__ 12y ago
    PHP? I had the feeling that much evolution happend from 1 to 5 but not much afterwards :\
    - mappu 12y ago
      5.3 is basically a whole new language. Development is pretty quick and regular ever since 5.4 and the new RFC process.

hayksaakian 12y ago

Can one of the 8 (so far) up-voters tell me whats interesting here? The linked readme tells little. ----- Now 25 pts with just as much explanation.... ----- As of 48 points, this (1) is the most relvant and informative explanation, but still has nothing to do directly with the linked OP. (1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8669743 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8669743

elisee 12y ago
Compare with https://github.com/joyent/node https://github.com/joyent/node, similar readme and commit numbers. Looks like a node.js fork. (EDIT: maybe you already understood that, I thought it might have been a different thing from node.js altogether until I saw the repositories shared a README/history)

_almosnow 12y ago

With the few forks and stances that everyone is taking now, I really hope that an amazing project like Node doesn't get f* up by becoming fragmented and multiple different "versions" appearing.

Skywing 12y ago
sigh time to start looking into Go
- logicchains 12y ago
  Or Dart. It's a lot closer to node and JS than Go (it uses asynchronous IO), and can more easily be used across both the server and client (Go's compilation-to-Javascript support is less developed). It's also surprisingly fast for a dynamic language, and has the generics Go lacks.
  - Bahamut 12y ago
    Should also mention that Dart is faster than Node - it benefits from Google's development of V8, and the language design was built for optimization while taking a lot of the good parts from JS.
    - Pharohbot 12y ago
      V8 Turbofan using asm.js AOT that is in beta right now otherwise.
espadrine 12y ago
The most valuable piece that came out of the node project is libuv, and that is certainly not going away.

mappu 12y ago

Node is the obvious leader amongst V8 shells, but there's also - https://github.com/attractivechaos/k8 https://github.com/attractivechaos/k8 and discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7913950 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7913950 - http://silkjs.net/ http://silkjs.net/ - https://code.google.com/p/teajs/ https://code.google.com/p/teajs/ - https://github.com/samlecuyer/sorrow.js https://github.com/samlecuyer/sorrow.js - https://github.com/tlrobinson/narwhal https://github.com/tlrobinson/narwhal - d8 (bundled with v8 source) Not counting other CommonJS-compatible platforms, or javascript shells using engines other than V8, or server-side javascript application frameworks

tjholowaychuk 12y ago

Wahoo, hope people are more open to change this time around – hope it works out!

thomasfromcdnjs 12y ago

From my Twitter feed... "Looks like a Node.js fork called io.js is happening, with some of Node's key contributors. 😮 http://github.com/iojs/io.js http://github.com/iojs/io.js " https://twitter.com/devongovett/status/538131893682569216 https://twitter.com/devongovett/status/538131893682569216

scljstcwombat 12y ago

It's raining node forks: https://github.com/io-forward/io-forward https://github.com/io-forward/io-forward

throwaway90447 12y ago
Fork Yeah!

sreejithr 12y ago

10000+ commits and 574 contributors. Boy, this has to be good. Can somebody explain?

ykl 12y ago
It's a fork of node.js

jpincheira 12y ago

hey, catchy name, for some ms I thought of iOS... maybe it's just me doing too much iOS development in the last months.

misterdai 12y ago

I'm finding the situation with Node.js quite frustrating. There doesn't appear to be much communication as to what's going on with the project. It's also odd that the Node Advisory Board was supposed to meet on the 20th (2014-11-20). Chris Williams tweeted that it was about to start [1] but no minutes have appeared and I can't find any mention of what happened during the meeting. [1] https://nodejs.org/advisory-board/2014-11-06/minutes.html#minutes_md_next_meeting https://nodejs.org/advisory-board/2014-11-06/minutes.html#mi...)

voodootikigod 12y ago
Sorry for the delay, it takes a while to polish the minutes and then gain consensus from the rest of the group about the final minutes. The US Holiday didn't help much either (as well as finalizing RobotsConf, life, etc) They are here now: https://github.com/joyent/nodejs-advisory-board/blob/master/meetings/2014-11-20/minutes.md https://github.com/joyent/nodejs-advisory-board/blob/master/...
- misterdai 12y ago
  Thanks Chris, probably read into the delay a little just because I could find any mention of the meeting actually taking place or not, apart from your tweet about it starting. Understandable though with all the other stuff you've got going on. Cheers :)

kylequest 12y ago

If you are curious about node-forward vs io.js take a look at the end of this page http://nodeforward.org http://nodeforward.org to see how they are related :-)

jackbravo 12y ago

@Mikeal has a couple of posts on the subject: - https://medium.com/@mikeal/on-corporate-ownership-of-open-source-786ebd15847e https://medium.com/@mikeal/on-corporate-ownership-of-open-so... - https://medium.com/node-js-javascript/fragmentation-7e87d28f60fe https://medium.com/node-js-javascript/fragmentation-7e87d28f...

scljstcwombat 12y ago
Ah yes, Mikeal, whose capability of double-think is so well-developed that he can claim to not understand what "fragmentation" means while at the same time advocating to do precisely that - https://github.com/iojs/io.js/issues/9 https://github.com/iojs/io.js/issues/9 I swear Chris Dickinson is the only sane one in this whole mess. Possibly because he's new. Possibly because his employer is the only one involved that's not beholden to VC money and expectations of return.

almogK 12y ago

I think it comes down to politics, I feel its always better to have a company run and support an open source framework as long as their listen to the community and letting the community be a part of the framework.

elixir1 12y ago

As a dev do we continue to use node or change to the fork?