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I agree with this, but I also feel torn by it. A PhD is one of the few opportunities in academia to do true, unconstrained, open ended research. With no hard de

by zmmmmm 12y ago

I agree with this, but I also feel torn by it. A PhD is one of the few opportunities in academia to do true, unconstrained, open ended research. With no hard deadline, no constant "publish or perish" pressure, students can take a bit more risk and look a bit further over the event horizon than other researchers who have to make every bit of research count towards a publication. Students don't realise it because they are so focused on getting through, but this opportunity doesn't come again. You are suggesting they should jump straight on to the slavish publication treadmill that academics already spend their lives on. In a pragmatic sense it's good advice, but it's also failing to make the most of the opportunity presented by a PhD. Maybe I'm just idealistic.

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kijin 12y ago
> A PhD is one of the few opportunities in academia to do true, unconstrained, open ended research. No, that's what you do after you've got tenure.
- anologwintermut 12y ago
  After you have tenure and a couple of grad students who believe in "A PhD is one of the few opportunities in academia to do true" ...
angersock 12y ago
All of the PhD students I know are constantly under "publish or perish" pressure, in addition to the open-ended research work--which usually is only as open as their advisor's pedigree and experience will allow. Industry seems to be much easier to get crazy ideas done in.
- tedks 12y ago
  And this is why academics are busy stomping out 3% speedups in arcane bullshit nobody cares about while startups and BigCorps are getting actual research done and pushing computing in new, exciting directions.
scott_s 12y ago
I felt no such freedom in grad school. I was constantly aware that I needed to write a cohesive dissertation, and that I needed to "own" it. This encourages students to continue working on a project just because it's "far enough" along, even though the student may have concluded its actual utility is lower than other projects. It also discouraged true, equal collaboration because the student must own that work enough to claim it as their own. Personally, I feel I have much more freedom not having the dissertation hanging over me head.
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shoyer 12y ago
> A PhD is one of the few opportunities in academia to do true, unconstrained, open ended research. Sure, but is this really in conflict with publishing articles? The sort of scientific advances that require a full book or dissertation for a proper treatment are few and far between. Also: doing true, unconstrained, open ended research as a PhD student is taking a big risk, one that is (a) quite likely to prolong the time necessary for completing the PhD and (b) almost certainly a bad idea if not done with the full support of their PhD advisor.

by zmmmmm 12y ago

deleted 12y ago

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kijin 12y ago

> A PhD is one of the few opportunities in academia to do true, unconstrained, open ended research. No, that's what you do after you've got tenure.

anologwintermut 12y ago
After you have tenure and a couple of grad students who believe in "A PhD is one of the few opportunities in academia to do true" ...

angersock 12y ago

All of the PhD students I know are constantly under "publish or perish" pressure, in addition to the open-ended research work--which usually is only as open as their advisor's pedigree and experience will allow. Industry seems to be much easier to get crazy ideas done in.

tedks 12y ago
And this is why academics are busy stomping out 3% speedups in arcane bullshit nobody cares about while startups and BigCorps are getting actual research done and pushing computing in new, exciting directions.

scott_s 12y ago

I felt no such freedom in grad school. I was constantly aware that I needed to write a cohesive dissertation, and that I needed to "own" it. This encourages students to continue working on a project just because it's "far enough" along, even though the student may have concluded its actual utility is lower than other projects. It also discouraged true, equal collaboration because the student must own that work enough to claim it as their own. Personally, I feel I have much more freedom not having the dissertation hanging over me head.

deleted 12y ago

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shoyer 12y ago

> A PhD is one of the few opportunities in academia to do true, unconstrained, open ended research. Sure, but is this really in conflict with publishing articles? The sort of scientific advances that require a full book or dissertation for a proper treatment are few and far between. Also: doing true, unconstrained, open ended research as a PhD student is taking a big risk, one that is (a) quite likely to prolong the time necessary for completing the PhD and (b) almost certainly a bad idea if not done with the full support of their PhD advisor.