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I think it's in the book "Automate This" [1] that there is a section about a guy who has spent a lot of time building AI to write classical music. Apparently pe

I think it's in the book "Automate This" [1] that there is a section about a guy who has spent a lot of time building AI to write classical music. Apparently people can't tell the difference, and only criticize it after they're told it's written by a computer. [1] http://smile.amazon.com/Automate-This-Algorithms-Markets-World/dp/1591846528/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1417039508&sr=8-1&keywords=automate+this http://smile.amazon.com/Automate-This-Algorithms-Markets-Wor...

tunesmith 12y ago
I think that's defensible. I'd find the exact same sequence of pitches more meaningful if they came from a human going through the emotional experience of trying to write it.
- solipsism 12y ago
  I see what you're getting it, but I think it's kind of odd. I'm curious: would the same sequence of pitches be more or less meaningful if they came from the brain of a specially trained dog?
  - jared314 12y ago
    > I'm curious: would the same sequence of pitches be more or less meaningful ... For me, Yes. The core of the issue is that the sequence of pitches is not meaningful on its own, like all communication. When I am listening to music, assuming a human made it, I explore and project meaning, emotion, and thought on to it as if expecting it to communicate something that would complete my mental model of the artist or environment. All in an effort to feel what the music was conveying. If I find out it was just auto generated, I feel like a fool looking for meaning in tea leaves.
    - therealdrag0 12y ago
      To me, it's not at all about communication. It's just experience, just like a mountain or a sunset. My enjoyment of it isn't contingent on how it was made.
      - mlvljr 12y ago
        You are heartless :)
    - anigbrowl 12y ago
      That's strange to me. I like to set up synthesizers/sequencers with elaborate feedback structures to create 'interesting' musical output, which I often enjoy listening to for extended periods, especially when it goes in directions I didn't originally anticipate. A self-sustaining structure is its own musical reward for me; I don't feel any less of an emotional relationship to it for not having written out individual notes (though I enjoy doing that too). Rather, it's fascinating to me in the same manner as a growing plant or or other self-directed natural process.
- wyager 12y ago
  The fact that a markov machine can write music identical to that of a human indicates that, perhaps, you are placing meaning where there is none.
Jweb_Guru 12y ago
I may be thinking of something else, but what I recall about a similar study was that the computer was essentially mixing and matching existing classical music from known composers. So at least in that case, it was not terribly surprising that people thought the music was good.
- therealdrag0 12y ago
  He originally did it with rules, then he adopted an 'influence' based model. I found an article on him: "In his view, all music — and, really, any creative pursuit — is largely based on previously created works. Call it standing on the shoulders of giants; call it plagiarism. Everything we create is just a product of recombination." [1] [1] http://www.psmag.com/culture/triumph-of-the-cyborg-composer-8507/ http://www.psmag.com/culture/triumph-of-the-cyborg-composer-...
failrate 12y ago
Why not? Mozart did the same thing (http://sunsite.univie.ac.at/Mozart/dice/ http://sunsite.univie.ac.at/Mozart/dice/)
thewarrior 12y ago
Yes , Emily Howell. Here is it trying to imitate Mozart : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vctssFH-M5c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vctssFH-M5c

tunesmith 12y ago

I think that's defensible. I'd find the exact same sequence of pitches more meaningful if they came from a human going through the emotional experience of trying to write it.

solipsism 12y ago
I see what you're getting it, but I think it's kind of odd. I'm curious: would the same sequence of pitches be more or less meaningful if they came from the brain of a specially trained dog?
- jared314 12y ago
  > I'm curious: would the same sequence of pitches be more or less meaningful ... For me, Yes. The core of the issue is that the sequence of pitches is not meaningful on its own, like all communication. When I am listening to music, assuming a human made it, I explore and project meaning, emotion, and thought on to it as if expecting it to communicate something that would complete my mental model of the artist or environment. All in an effort to feel what the music was conveying. If I find out it was just auto generated, I feel like a fool looking for meaning in tea leaves.
  - therealdrag0 12y ago
    To me, it's not at all about communication. It's just experience, just like a mountain or a sunset. My enjoyment of it isn't contingent on how it was made.
    - mlvljr 12y ago
      You are heartless :)
  - anigbrowl 12y ago
    That's strange to me. I like to set up synthesizers/sequencers with elaborate feedback structures to create 'interesting' musical output, which I often enjoy listening to for extended periods, especially when it goes in directions I didn't originally anticipate. A self-sustaining structure is its own musical reward for me; I don't feel any less of an emotional relationship to it for not having written out individual notes (though I enjoy doing that too). Rather, it's fascinating to me in the same manner as a growing plant or or other self-directed natural process.
wyager 12y ago
The fact that a markov machine can write music identical to that of a human indicates that, perhaps, you are placing meaning where there is none.

Jweb_Guru 12y ago

I may be thinking of something else, but what I recall about a similar study was that the computer was essentially mixing and matching existing classical music from known composers. So at least in that case, it was not terribly surprising that people thought the music was good.

therealdrag0 12y ago
He originally did it with rules, then he adopted an 'influence' based model. I found an article on him: "In his view, all music — and, really, any creative pursuit — is largely based on previously created works. Call it standing on the shoulders of giants; call it plagiarism. Everything we create is just a product of recombination." [1] [1] http://www.psmag.com/culture/triumph-of-the-cyborg-composer-8507/ http://www.psmag.com/culture/triumph-of-the-cyborg-composer-...

failrate 12y ago

Why not? Mozart did the same thing (http://sunsite.univie.ac.at/Mozart/dice/ http://sunsite.univie.ac.at/Mozart/dice/)

thewarrior 12y ago

Yes , Emily Howell. Here is it trying to imitate Mozart : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vctssFH-M5c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vctssFH-M5c