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Yes but if you're using a language that transpiles to Javascript, you might as well use another language all together (for backend programming). Debugging becom

by adamors 12y ago

Yes but if you're using a language that transpiles to Javascript, you might as well use another language all together (for backend programming). Debugging becomes much simpler with a language that doesn't has to turn into something else. For frontend development, a lot of frameworks and libraries only work consistently with Javascript. I've looked at TypeScript for instance, and it indeed looks nice. But it has a bunch of edge cases with Angular and/or Backbone. You're just piling on complexity with these languages.

nwienert 12y ago
Oh well, at this point we're moving into subjective opinion. But you need to write your frontend SPA with JS. And the isomorphic part, if designed from the ground up adds almost no extra code. So, really it's almost free to render first with Node, if you're starting a fresh SPA. I don't see why you wouldn't want to do it. And we can all agree the ES5 has some warts, so you may as well transpile. Whether it's ClojureScript, Coffee, Type, or anything else doesn't matter, I just think it's a problem solved. Webpack makes debugging them easy with sourcemaps and live-compilation. In fact you can get hot-reloading[1] in React. So your app re-compiles without reloading. I'm happy with ES6 + Flow. It's all ES6 syntax anyway, works with all libraries, and is fast to write, good looking, and functional. [1] https://github.com/gaearon/react-hot-loader https://github.com/gaearon/react-hot-loader
tracker1 12y ago
If you write very modular code with good test coverage, the odds of you needing to fire up a debugger are greatly reduced. Regardless of the language you choose. Given JS has first-class functions, and many libraries to follow functional patterns. You can write very stable code, with almost no chance of side effects within a given function/context.
- adamors 12y ago
  The problem is, that not everyone works on greenfield applications all the time. I never inherited modular, well tested javascript projects. I did, on the other hand, have to take over cobbled together jQuery, Backbone and Coffeescript applications.
  - nwienert 12y ago
    I think the real problem is that this has nothing to do with the article on hand. Yahoo is writing a greenfield application, and they are avoiding exactly those problems by using React. So, literally your pain point is exactly what they are writing about avoiding, and yet you still comment on this article with the same anti-JS nonsense.

by adamors 12y ago

nwienert 12y ago

Oh well, at this point we're moving into subjective opinion. But you need to write your frontend SPA with JS. And the isomorphic part, if designed from the ground up adds almost no extra code. So, really it's almost free to render first with Node, if you're starting a fresh SPA. I don't see why you wouldn't want to do it. And we can all agree the ES5 has some warts, so you may as well transpile. Whether it's ClojureScript, Coffee, Type, or anything else doesn't matter, I just think it's a problem solved. Webpack makes debugging them easy with sourcemaps and live-compilation. In fact you can get hot-reloading[1] in React. So your app re-compiles without reloading. I'm happy with ES6 + Flow. It's all ES6 syntax anyway, works with all libraries, and is fast to write, good looking, and functional. [1] https://github.com/gaearon/react-hot-loader https://github.com/gaearon/react-hot-loader

tracker1 12y ago

If you write very modular code with good test coverage, the odds of you needing to fire up a debugger are greatly reduced. Regardless of the language you choose. Given JS has first-class functions, and many libraries to follow functional patterns. You can write very stable code, with almost no chance of side effects within a given function/context.

adamors 12y ago
The problem is, that not everyone works on greenfield applications all the time. I never inherited modular, well tested javascript projects. I did, on the other hand, have to take over cobbled together jQuery, Backbone and Coffeescript applications.
- nwienert 12y ago
  I think the real problem is that this has nothing to do with the article on hand. Yahoo is writing a greenfield application, and they are avoiding exactly those problems by using React. So, literally your pain point is exactly what they are writing about avoiding, and yet you still comment on this article with the same anti-JS nonsense.