7 ms·

Yep, node.js is the new PHP. Not by how it works, but by "shit everyone uses". Now, I won't try to convince anyone that it's crap (while I do believe it is), bu

by loxs 12y ago

Yep, node.js is the new PHP. Not by how it works, but by "shit everyone uses". Now, I won't try to convince anyone that it's crap (while I do believe it is), but it's the modern crap technology. Welcome to 1998, we are all "modern".

twerquie 12y ago
Care to back up any of your assertions? If your main complaint is popularity, your argument comes off as elitist.
- loxs 12y ago
  Here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8662605 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8662605
  - twerquie 12y ago
    I've responded there, sorry for the noise.
general_failure 12y ago
What framework would you suggest server side?
- remon 12y ago
  I would argue the discussion is less about which framework and more about the suitability of the language. It's a debate worth having but I struggle to think of good arguments to move infrastructure of this sort of scope to JavaScript over the more "typical" options (Java/Scala, .NET, Python, go, erlang, etc.). JavaScript obviously has a place in web application development, I'm just not convinced that place is on servers in the vast majority of cases.
- loxs 12y ago
  Disclaimer: I am a full-time Erlang programmer I use several frameworks/libs for different tasks: Webmachine, N2O, Cowboy I don't believe in RoR type of frameworks. I believe in clear separation between server and client. We are steadily moving towards a web of websockets and "one page JS applications". Won't comment on whether that is nice thing or not. I am not sure for myself. For client we are stuck with JS. Sucks but it's a fact of life. Erlang (or other things using this model, though, nothing as mature exists) is the only sane way of writing "multi-user" or "mega-user" servers. For me, server side is a solved problem (because of Erlang). And I'm talking about huge, clustered backends. Node.js feels like a child's toy compared to Erlang. I would suggest that everyone who claims to be a web programmer should at least know how to use Erlang. Otherwise, you aren't really aware of how big the world really is. And what is possible actually. This may sound elitist, and it probably is, and I am probably not a good person for talking like that. But you can't really argue with things like this: http://blog.whatsapp.com/196/1-million-is-so-2011 http://blog.whatsapp.com/196/1-million-is-so-2011 Once you have experienced things like this, and once you really understand why it works and how to steadily reproduce it on every project you work on... well, that's why I claim that server side is a solved problem.
  - davidw 12y ago
    As someone who knows their way around Erlang, it needs some work for more 'average joe' programmers to get much done with it. I'm not talking about the syntax, but some set of libraries or a framework or something that gets people up and running quickly. Chicago Boss is interesting, but it's not very Erlangy (it uses compiler magic). Edit: that said, a big company would certainly have the resources to make Erlang work well for web development, and, yes, it's way more solid than Node.js from an architectural point of view.
    - loxs 12y ago
      Sadly, I have to agree :(. This is the weakest aspect of the Erlang ecosystem...
      - disbelief 12y ago
Igglyboo 12y ago
node.js is the new PHP for hip web developers who read HN. It's still a relatively unheard of platform to most people and mocked by a lot as well. I love it though.
- k__ 12y ago
  Well, if you are like me, who worked with PHP for years, node.js feels nicer to use. Npm alone makes it better than PHP ever was.
  - Igglyboo 12y ago
    NPM is great, haven't used PHP but it blows Python's pip out of the water IMO.
    - tootie 12y ago
      NPM chokes for me about 1 time out of 10. The main repo has reliability issues. A lot of the libs install executables that require sudo. Java solved dependency management years ago. I don't know why every language doesn't just rely on a classpath.
      - woah 12y ago
        I've never had any issues with npm and I started coding about 2 years ago. In fact I didn't have any issues with npm when I first started. Maybe you need to have a friend show you how to do it correctly. I can't imagine what your issue is.
        LunaSea 12y ago
        Same here. No issues in more than two years.
    - notastartup 12y ago
      used npm, and started using pip. it was way better because you could use python and not javascript.
aikah 12y ago
> Yep, node.js is the new PHP. No,it's way too low level to be "the new PHP",and frankly async programming is hard,way harder than writing sync code by default.

by loxs 12y ago

twerquie 12y ago

Care to back up any of your assertions? If your main complaint is popularity, your argument comes off as elitist.

loxs 12y ago
Here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8662605 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8662605
- twerquie 12y ago
  I've responded there, sorry for the noise.

general_failure 12y ago

What framework would you suggest server side?

remon 12y ago
I would argue the discussion is less about which framework and more about the suitability of the language. It's a debate worth having but I struggle to think of good arguments to move infrastructure of this sort of scope to JavaScript over the more "typical" options (Java/Scala, .NET, Python, go, erlang, etc.). JavaScript obviously has a place in web application development, I'm just not convinced that place is on servers in the vast majority of cases.
loxs 12y ago
Disclaimer: I am a full-time Erlang programmer I use several frameworks/libs for different tasks: Webmachine, N2O, Cowboy I don't believe in RoR type of frameworks. I believe in clear separation between server and client. We are steadily moving towards a web of websockets and "one page JS applications". Won't comment on whether that is nice thing or not. I am not sure for myself. For client we are stuck with JS. Sucks but it's a fact of life. Erlang (or other things using this model, though, nothing as mature exists) is the only sane way of writing "multi-user" or "mega-user" servers. For me, server side is a solved problem (because of Erlang). And I'm talking about huge, clustered backends. Node.js feels like a child's toy compared to Erlang. I would suggest that everyone who claims to be a web programmer should at least know how to use Erlang. Otherwise, you aren't really aware of how big the world really is. And what is possible actually. This may sound elitist, and it probably is, and I am probably not a good person for talking like that. But you can't really argue with things like this: http://blog.whatsapp.com/196/1-million-is-so-2011 http://blog.whatsapp.com/196/1-million-is-so-2011 Once you have experienced things like this, and once you really understand why it works and how to steadily reproduce it on every project you work on... well, that's why I claim that server side is a solved problem.
- davidw 12y ago
  As someone who knows their way around Erlang, it needs some work for more 'average joe' programmers to get much done with it. I'm not talking about the syntax, but some set of libraries or a framework or something that gets people up and running quickly. Chicago Boss is interesting, but it's not very Erlangy (it uses compiler magic). Edit: that said, a big company would certainly have the resources to make Erlang work well for web development, and, yes, it's way more solid than Node.js from an architectural point of view.
  - loxs 12y ago
    Sadly, I have to agree :(. This is the weakest aspect of the Erlang ecosystem...
    - disbelief 12y ago

Igglyboo 12y ago

node.js is the new PHP for hip web developers who read HN. It's still a relatively unheard of platform to most people and mocked by a lot as well. I love it though.

k__ 12y ago
Well, if you are like me, who worked with PHP for years, node.js feels nicer to use. Npm alone makes it better than PHP ever was.
- Igglyboo 12y ago
  NPM is great, haven't used PHP but it blows Python's pip out of the water IMO.
  - tootie 12y ago
    NPM chokes for me about 1 time out of 10. The main repo has reliability issues. A lot of the libs install executables that require sudo. Java solved dependency management years ago. I don't know why every language doesn't just rely on a classpath.
    - woah 12y ago
      I've never had any issues with npm and I started coding about 2 years ago. In fact I didn't have any issues with npm when I first started. Maybe you need to have a friend show you how to do it correctly. I can't imagine what your issue is.
      - LunaSea 12y ago
        Same here. No issues in more than two years.
  - notastartup 12y ago
    used npm, and started using pip. it was way better because you could use python and not javascript.

aikah 12y ago

> Yep, node.js is the new PHP. No,it's way too low level to be "the new PHP",and frankly async programming is hard,way harder than writing sync code by default.