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Without exaggeration nor sarcasm, I don't think a single person in the US past 5th grade is celebrating Thanksgiving to honor those events. You learn about the

by viewer5 12y ago

Without exaggeration nor sarcasm, I don't think a single person in the US past 5th grade is celebrating Thanksgiving to honor those events. You learn about the pilgrims in elementary school, and the origins of the holiday. Then, once you're a little older, you learn about all the horrible things that happened. And popular culture doesn't depict it as being about that, either; it's a time to give thanks, and be with friends and family, and eat lots of food, and go shopping soon, but I never see it depicted as even ostensibly being about the history of it. So in my experience, you're sort of preaching to the choir, and, to extend the metaphor, EVERYBODY is in the choir. If I'm mistaken, and someone reading this does celebrate Thanksgiving to honor the history of it, I'd be interested to hear from you.

soylentcola 12y ago
Not to mention that a harvest feast is common to a lot of cultures and time periods this time of year. Even though modern agriculture had made seasonal harvests less of an issue for people in the relatively wealthy part of the world I live in, I have no problem with having a holiday centered around eating, drinking, spending time with friends, and celebrating the things we have with small gifts and generosity among those I care about.
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  ...and call it Festivus! Everybody gather around the Festivus pole!
justifier 12y ago
I was addressing the question regarding the compulsion to rebrand > The need to create some sort of alternative label confuses me Also, I work in a hostel and these past weeks I have seen innumerable 20+ year staff members tell the classic pilgrim and indian story to many foreigners questions of 'what is thanksgiving' So perhaps my personal experience struck me sensitive this morning, but I also feel the standard menu, which seriously requires a revisit, also continues to tell this story on many tables every thanksgiving across the states How many of us have heard heckled from the pews this year, or thought themselves, when a suggestion to change a traditional staple: 'how can you call it thanksgiving without turkey'potatoes'pumpkin pie'whatever'; which is a direct effect of the history and personal traditions of the holiday
- tjr 12y ago
  My understanding is that the traditional U.S. "Thanksgiving meal" isn't historically accurate either.
  - justifier 12y ago
    Precisely, in keeping with the narrative lacking historical accuracy
- viewer5 12y ago
  > I was addressing the question regarding the compulsion to rebrand I'm not sure "rebrand" is the right word; "Friendsgiving" is a deviation from the well-established norm of spending Thanksgiving with family, so giving it a separate, derivative name doesn't seem inappropriate. I myself am in the middle of organizing a separate celebration with friends, on Saturday, and I'm also calling it something that ends in "-sgiving", because we're doing it in the general spirit of (obviously not-historic) Thanksgiving, but it doesn't fit the cultural standard (on Thursday, with family). > I have seen innumerable 20+ year staff members tell the classic pilgrim and indian story to many foreigners questions of 'what is thanksgiving' If I were asked that, I think I would give the same answer. Though I would also tell someone what Christmas was about, if asked, without feeling the need to explain how I don't believe it or for what reasons. I also don't think I'd add the "disclaimer" about how messed up the whole original Thanksgiving stuff was unless someone pressed me for it or inquired further, though if I think about it, I'm not sure why; it almost seems like a separate question to me. Interesting. What do you think?
  - justifier 12y ago
    I suppose this is why I used the descriptor 'value assertion' How does a native American reservation celebrate the third Thursday? My deliberate disdain for some cultural artifacts are mainly to be inclusive to those who are potentially marginalized by the status quo, Full inclusion is a highest value of mine that I try to assert in in my actions and thoughts Christmas, like all religious activities, is exclusive to everyone who believes outside a community's line, and as such is abhorrent to me, and i state the same to anyone who asks my understanding of it It feels a scientific approach: your world is flat unless you choose to extend your sight beyond the horizon; and I'm always on the lookout for horizons I have yet to extend

by viewer5 12y ago

soylentcola 12y ago

Not to mention that a harvest feast is common to a lot of cultures and time periods this time of year. Even though modern agriculture had made seasonal harvests less of an issue for people in the relatively wealthy part of the world I live in, I have no problem with having a holiday centered around eating, drinking, spending time with friends, and celebrating the things we have with small gifts and generosity among those I care about.

JoeAltmaier 12y ago
...and call it Festivus! Everybody gather around the Festivus pole!

justifier 12y ago

I was addressing the question regarding the compulsion to rebrand > The need to create some sort of alternative label confuses me Also, I work in a hostel and these past weeks I have seen innumerable 20+ year staff members tell the classic pilgrim and indian story to many foreigners questions of 'what is thanksgiving' So perhaps my personal experience struck me sensitive this morning, but I also feel the standard menu, which seriously requires a revisit, also continues to tell this story on many tables every thanksgiving across the states How many of us have heard heckled from the pews this year, or thought themselves, when a suggestion to change a traditional staple: 'how can you call it thanksgiving without turkey'potatoes'pumpkin pie'whatever'; which is a direct effect of the history and personal traditions of the holiday

tjr 12y ago
My understanding is that the traditional U.S. "Thanksgiving meal" isn't historically accurate either.
- justifier 12y ago
  Precisely, in keeping with the narrative lacking historical accuracy
viewer5 12y ago
> I was addressing the question regarding the compulsion to rebrand I'm not sure "rebrand" is the right word; "Friendsgiving" is a deviation from the well-established norm of spending Thanksgiving with family, so giving it a separate, derivative name doesn't seem inappropriate. I myself am in the middle of organizing a separate celebration with friends, on Saturday, and I'm also calling it something that ends in "-sgiving", because we're doing it in the general spirit of (obviously not-historic) Thanksgiving, but it doesn't fit the cultural standard (on Thursday, with family). > I have seen innumerable 20+ year staff members tell the classic pilgrim and indian story to many foreigners questions of 'what is thanksgiving' If I were asked that, I think I would give the same answer. Though I would also tell someone what Christmas was about, if asked, without feeling the need to explain how I don't believe it or for what reasons. I also don't think I'd add the "disclaimer" about how messed up the whole original Thanksgiving stuff was unless someone pressed me for it or inquired further, though if I think about it, I'm not sure why; it almost seems like a separate question to me. Interesting. What do you think?
- justifier 12y ago
  I suppose this is why I used the descriptor 'value assertion' How does a native American reservation celebrate the third Thursday? My deliberate disdain for some cultural artifacts are mainly to be inclusive to those who are potentially marginalized by the status quo, Full inclusion is a highest value of mine that I try to assert in in my actions and thoughts Christmas, like all religious activities, is exclusive to everyone who believes outside a community's line, and as such is abhorrent to me, and i state the same to anyone who asks my understanding of it It feels a scientific approach: your world is flat unless you choose to extend your sight beyond the horizon; and I'm always on the lookout for horizons I have yet to extend