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It's a fair point, but it's much less simple than you say. Firstly, this problem exists in current society too. I don't think anyone has any problem picking ou
by IkmoIkmo 12y ago
It's a fair point, but it's much less simple than you say.
Firstly, this problem exists in current society too. I don't think anyone has any problem picking out rich people, and anyone in a city will be able to tell you where the rich neighborhood is. Bitcoin doesn't make this any easier. In fact, best (and common) practice is to never reuse addresses, and use bitcoin inputs from various addresses. (e.g. to pay $5 for a pizza, you could theoretically, if you wanted, use inputs from millions of addresses each having only tiny fractions of a penny). Despite the public ledger, bitcoin offers a lot of financial privacy. As such the first premise of your story I think is flawed: that it's easier to find out who is bitcoin-rich.
Second, extortion, kidnapping, stealing, these are all things that on paper are pretty easy to do now, but to say it leaves no trace or that it's in any way easy (regardless of what token you steal, whether it's platinum bars or World of Warcraft gold) is clearly not true. Regardless of what is being extorted, this is really hard. For example, ideas can be extorted, too, passwords, keys to nuclear launch facilities etc. But it doesn't really happen too often, even though the tools to 'trace' a stolen idea or a stolen digital file are (and can be) limited.
But let's imagine it does happen? Let's compare it to a debit card. They kidnap you, take you to an ATM and force you to use it or give them the code. It happens every now and then, but the amount stolen is usually very limited, a few hundred bucks as that's the limit for most ATMs per day.
Bitcoin has similar options. You can have more than 1 key, and you can give such a key to say a friend, a bank, a server. Technically it's easy to set up a system where you have $1m, and to send $1m requires you and multiple other keys to sign, the key at the bank (stored behind armed guards), your notary or your friends. You can keep it simple or super complicated depending on your risk profile and the amount of money. In a small village as an unknown rich entrepreneur, keep it simple. As a known billionaire in guadalajara? Probably require lots of keys for any amount over $10k or something. Just making something up. Point is, technically you can set it up any way you'd want.
So they'd extort you and you'd say 'just like my ATM, I only possess a key that allows $500 to be transferred per day. For more I need more keys which I don't possess, I own them but I don't have them with me. I'd need to go to a bank' or whatever.
Now there are a lot of caveats to this. The whole notion of keeping all your money in your brain carries physical risks, and keeping keys with a third party (as opposed to 100% autonomy over your money) is sort of contrary to the spirit of bitcoin. But you can keep keys at multiple parties, neither of which individually have enough keys to control your money, while providing security benefits. In short, there are lots of possible solutions to the horror story you wrote (of an easy & perfect crime) that should be arriving in fully consumer-friendly ways over the next few years for sure.
- JamesBarney 12y agoAnd Oleg and Boris being the perfectly reasonable guys that they are. Say "Of course you have a key that only allows $500 per day. We'll take $500 and be on our way without causing you any further harm." :)
- crpatino 12y agoMore likely, they will take your $500, drive you around in their trunk for a few days while extracting another $1500, then let you go under the promise to keep paying $100 per week until your original balance runs out and never talk to the police, or else they'll come back to kill you and your loved ones. You may keep paying afterwards... or you may not. But even if they do not follow on their threats, $1K each for a weekend of "light work" is still pretty good money.
- IkmoIkmo 12y agoThis is pretty similar to kidnapping someone and using their ATM every day at midnight with a hoodie on, and when you're done, you let him go and THEN he'll block his card. And interestingly this virtually never happens that I know of outside of some countries in South America (where there's actually a term for it, express kidnapping) In any case, it's no different to someone being abducted for his ATM card, it applies exactly the same. We can have a broader discussion about physical security, I'm not saying we're all perfectly secure, but acting like it's a unique problem to bitcoin money is disingenuous.
- IkmoIkmo 12y agoNote that it's no different from ATMs with a $500 per day limit. We can have a broader discussion about physical security, but it's clear this isn't a problem that's unique to bitcoin at all. In fact, bitcoin allows anyone to configure their security according to their own risk profile, and retain full financial privacy in their ordinary lives. I'm not saying it's a perfect world with bitcoin and that you're fully secure against overwhelming physical intimidation and force, but as I mentioned in another comment, acting like this is a unique problem to bitcoin just isn't true. For digital extortion it is true, bitcoin is unique, for physical extortion it isn't. The reason being that it's very hard to send money without a trace digitally without using cryptocurrency, so bitcoin is unique here. If you run an extortion over Paypal, you're in jail by the end of the week usually. But physical extortion is possible because cash (or say jewelry) from ATMs is difficult to trace, bitcoin doesn't make this any easier. On the contrary, I'd rather steal from my ATM card than from my bitcoin wallet, as I only have $150 or so in a non-multi signature wallet, but my ATM has a $1250 a day limit, because I can configure my risk profile with bitcoin myself.