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It's not a "comparison", it's a thought experiment intended to get you out of your regular thinking. Not something to be interpreted in the worst way you can im

It's not a "comparison", it's a thought experiment intended to get you out of your regular thinking. Not something to be interpreted in the worst way you can imagine. Based on what you've just said, can you see how assuming a mentally ill person is helpless can be a negative to them? As you say, asking if they need help carries the implication they are helpless. If you observe them and they seem to be getting along fine, why assume they're helpless? Why imply that by asking if they need help?

sillysaurus3 12y ago
I apologize for my extreme reaction to your thought experiment. I just have a close relationship with one particular woman who recently started programming, and I was mainly thinking like "how would she feel if she read that?" But since I'm not a woman, I guess I'll leave those sorts of reactions to other people. Plus, I really don't like making people feel bad. And I appreciate that you acted in good faith. I understand how people might be slighted by an offer of assistance. I just thought that by definition, mentally ill people need help. It's in the name. But this whole experience has been pretty eye-opening, so I don't know what to think anymore.
- waterlesscloud 12y ago
  Thanks. I apologize for coming back hard on it. People online so often seem to be intentionally talking past each other. But I do see why you reacted the way you did. To be clear, my intent was to take a situation where the condescension of the question was clear so that you could then see how it could apply elsewhere. So I picked a situation where you'd (hopefully!) have that immediate understanding. I feel "mentally ill" is a problematic term for just the reasons you imply. Illness implies a desire to be well, and it's natural to want to help people who are ill. Assuming someone is unhappy with their situation implies they should be unhappy with it, that something's wrong with it. And if they aren't unhappy, and they're constantly being told they should be (indirectly, through the question), you can see how it could be very frustrating and perhaps even harmful to them. Some people do need help. Those who are obviously incapable of taking care of their basic needs. A million years ago I dated a woman who worked as in home care for a seriously mentally ill woman. The woman being cared for had someone with her, 24 hours a day, basically making sure she didn't hurt herself and was fed and so on. The woman got to live in her own home, and the state paid for the in-home care. Which to be honest, was barely-trained college age women making like $10 an hour. I had mixed feelings about the situation. She probably could have gotten "better" help in some sort of facility. But on the other hand, she was given the dignity of the minimal help necessary for her to get by. Does that make sense? From that perspective, I thought it was a humane thing for society to do.

sillysaurus3 12y ago

I apologize for my extreme reaction to your thought experiment. I just have a close relationship with one particular woman who recently started programming, and I was mainly thinking like "how would she feel if she read that?" But since I'm not a woman, I guess I'll leave those sorts of reactions to other people. Plus, I really don't like making people feel bad. And I appreciate that you acted in good faith. I understand how people might be slighted by an offer of assistance. I just thought that by definition, mentally ill people need help. It's in the name. But this whole experience has been pretty eye-opening, so I don't know what to think anymore.

waterlesscloud 12y ago
Thanks. I apologize for coming back hard on it. People online so often seem to be intentionally talking past each other. But I do see why you reacted the way you did. To be clear, my intent was to take a situation where the condescension of the question was clear so that you could then see how it could apply elsewhere. So I picked a situation where you'd (hopefully!) have that immediate understanding. I feel "mentally ill" is a problematic term for just the reasons you imply. Illness implies a desire to be well, and it's natural to want to help people who are ill. Assuming someone is unhappy with their situation implies they should be unhappy with it, that something's wrong with it. And if they aren't unhappy, and they're constantly being told they should be (indirectly, through the question), you can see how it could be very frustrating and perhaps even harmful to them. Some people do need help. Those who are obviously incapable of taking care of their basic needs. A million years ago I dated a woman who worked as in home care for a seriously mentally ill woman. The woman being cared for had someone with her, 24 hours a day, basically making sure she didn't hurt herself and was fed and so on. The woman got to live in her own home, and the state paid for the in-home care. Which to be honest, was barely-trained college age women making like $10 an hour. I had mixed feelings about the situation. She probably could have gotten "better" help in some sort of facility. But on the other hand, she was given the dignity of the minimal help necessary for her to get by. Does that make sense? From that perspective, I thought it was a humane thing for society to do.