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They're asserting it imposes the singularity of experience, not "defines consciousness". One could think of the claustrum as something that prevents multi-threa

They're asserting it imposes the singularity of experience, not "defines consciousness". One could think of the claustrum as something that prevents multi-threading.

hosh 12y ago
It's actually possible to go enter a state where there are multiple streams of thoughts, feelings, and action while simultaneously remaining in a complete, integrated experience with clarity. It requires decoupling awareness from a single strand of thought. (You are not your thoughts).
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  Doubt it. Its possible to scramble your neurons so you think you did this; or so you think you remember doing this. How was it measured? What instrument was used to document this? If the instrument was the same one that was being tinkered with (your brain) then its highly doubtful.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- pluma 12y ago
  I think you may be mixing up something. What you're describing is still a "single strand of thought", just one that is a lot fuzzier. We can hear, see and feel at the same time even though we can at other times be hyper-focused on any one of those experiences individually. We can observe a single fish in a swarm closely, but we can also track the entire swarm and all the fish in it -- albeit with a much higher error rate at the level of the individual fish (e.g. because of "change blindness"). Unless I missed some serious research on the topic, it's not possible to be intensely aware of every single particle (be it a particular sensation or an individual entity that is being observed) in a complex system while observing the system as a whole.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - hosh 12y ago
    What I am not describing is a single strand of thought that is fuzzier. Like I said, it's awareness with clarity.
- grizzkill2 12y ago
  Yeah, it seems possible, my experience with it is through seizures though. I've had a bunch of temporal lobe seizures (the general area which the article says this neuron superhub lies), and it seems like this superhub malfunctions and sends and receives signals to every part of my brain. My entire subconscious bubbles up at once with no filter. I can feel my heartbeat, I can feel my breathing, I can feel every nerve in my body but the feelings don't make sense, memories from years ago flood my brain, I have simultaneous multiple inner dialogues, I see everything in whatever environment I'm in but I'm confused, I have no idea what I'm doing. My brain then starts to shut down after a few seconds of this, or at least my memory does. The seizure either spreads into a grand mal or stops. It's really overwhelming. Anyway, it feels like these disparate parts of the brain are all working at once but the overarching controller malfunctions.
  - hosh 12y ago
    Thank you for sharing that experience. I didn't know that can happen with seizures. Sorry to hear about your suffering. I've sometimes have that experience during meditation, though, that's often in a controlled, formal setting. Though the idea with meditation is to attain clarity and awareness and not generate more confusion. Not that that always happen in my practice :-D
- Retric 12y ago
  I find it normal to have several streams of thought going on at the same time. Picking just one to give voice to is sometimes difficult. For example I have two or three independent answers to the same question based on different assumptions. Or only having two hands to move several things at the same time. So, if anything this is a problem not a benefit. Also, split streams tend to be individually dumber.
  - hosh 12y ago
    They can be. It is possible for those individual streams to be entire personalities, though I've only rarely touched that space, and only during peak experiences. I'm not sure yet how I can put that to practical use in ordinary, day-to-day life. In the version you have, the times when I usually have something like that arises is when I'm playing Go or when I'm making architectural decisions. I don't necessarily try to give voice to all of the threads, but rather, keep them in varying states of potentiality, while examining a single thread to check it's validity. It's not always necessary to render a thought stream into a voice until you need it. Kinda like lazy eval, I suppose. I've met people who are significantly more intelligent than I am, and I can usually tell, they are doing something similar with greater clarity. And I'm just barely hanging on to the ride, trying to keep up with them.
- tjradcliffe 12y ago
  I sometimes think my mental processes must be very weird because I can't even figure out what "You are your thoughts" would mean, yet I'm guessing from your parenthetical remark that it is an idea people find not only meaningful but plausible?
rnhmjoj 12y ago
It's the GIL.
vorg 12y ago
They say there's two distinct claustrums ("claustra"?) so shouldn't they be asserting there's two singularities of experience? Perhaps there's two consciousnesses in the typical human brain!

They're asserting it imposes the singularity of experience, not "defines consciousness". One could think of the claustrum as something that prevents multi-threading.

hosh 12y ago

It's actually possible to go enter a state where there are multiple streams of thoughts, feelings, and action while simultaneously remaining in a complete, integrated experience with clarity. It requires decoupling awareness from a single strand of thought. (You are not your thoughts).

JoeAltmaier 12y ago
Doubt it. Its possible to scramble your neurons so you think you did this; or so you think you remember doing this. How was it measured? What instrument was used to document this? If the instrument was the same one that was being tinkered with (your brain) then its highly doubtful.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
pluma 12y ago
I think you may be mixing up something. What you're describing is still a "single strand of thought", just one that is a lot fuzzier. We can hear, see and feel at the same time even though we can at other times be hyper-focused on any one of those experiences individually. We can observe a single fish in a swarm closely, but we can also track the entire swarm and all the fish in it -- albeit with a much higher error rate at the level of the individual fish (e.g. because of "change blindness"). Unless I missed some serious research on the topic, it's not possible to be intensely aware of every single particle (be it a particular sensation or an individual entity that is being observed) in a complex system while observing the system as a whole.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- hosh 12y ago
  What I am not describing is a single strand of thought that is fuzzier. Like I said, it's awareness with clarity.
grizzkill2 12y ago
Yeah, it seems possible, my experience with it is through seizures though. I've had a bunch of temporal lobe seizures (the general area which the article says this neuron superhub lies), and it seems like this superhub malfunctions and sends and receives signals to every part of my brain. My entire subconscious bubbles up at once with no filter. I can feel my heartbeat, I can feel my breathing, I can feel every nerve in my body but the feelings don't make sense, memories from years ago flood my brain, I have simultaneous multiple inner dialogues, I see everything in whatever environment I'm in but I'm confused, I have no idea what I'm doing. My brain then starts to shut down after a few seconds of this, or at least my memory does. The seizure either spreads into a grand mal or stops. It's really overwhelming. Anyway, it feels like these disparate parts of the brain are all working at once but the overarching controller malfunctions.
- hosh 12y ago
  Thank you for sharing that experience. I didn't know that can happen with seizures. Sorry to hear about your suffering. I've sometimes have that experience during meditation, though, that's often in a controlled, formal setting. Though the idea with meditation is to attain clarity and awareness and not generate more confusion. Not that that always happen in my practice :-D
Retric 12y ago
I find it normal to have several streams of thought going on at the same time. Picking just one to give voice to is sometimes difficult. For example I have two or three independent answers to the same question based on different assumptions. Or only having two hands to move several things at the same time. So, if anything this is a problem not a benefit. Also, split streams tend to be individually dumber.
- hosh 12y ago
  They can be. It is possible for those individual streams to be entire personalities, though I've only rarely touched that space, and only during peak experiences. I'm not sure yet how I can put that to practical use in ordinary, day-to-day life. In the version you have, the times when I usually have something like that arises is when I'm playing Go or when I'm making architectural decisions. I don't necessarily try to give voice to all of the threads, but rather, keep them in varying states of potentiality, while examining a single thread to check it's validity. It's not always necessary to render a thought stream into a voice until you need it. Kinda like lazy eval, I suppose. I've met people who are significantly more intelligent than I am, and I can usually tell, they are doing something similar with greater clarity. And I'm just barely hanging on to the ride, trying to keep up with them.
tjradcliffe 12y ago
I sometimes think my mental processes must be very weird because I can't even figure out what "You are your thoughts" would mean, yet I'm guessing from your parenthetical remark that it is an idea people find not only meaningful but plausible?

rnhmjoj 12y ago

It's the GIL.

vorg 12y ago

They say there's two distinct claustrums ("claustra"?) so shouldn't they be asserting there's two singularities of experience? Perhaps there's two consciousnesses in the typical human brain!