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Happiness-wise South Korea ranks 41. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report). Here in Switzer

by s3nnyy 12y ago

Happiness-wise South Korea ranks 41. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report). Here in Switzerland (3rd in happiness) it is not unusual that people are employed only 3-4 days / week and still make enough money to live well. I don't know of any other country where this is commonplace. (Full disclosure: If you're from the EU and looking for a tech-job over here, I'd be happy to help out).

mathattack 12y ago
I think working hours is just a symptom. Look at the funnel... Korean kids spend an ungodly amount of time in class and doing test prep. Putting a cosmetic limit to the amount of hours worked doesn't change society on it's own.
- s3nnyy 12y ago
  Yet, South Korea ranks high for a First-World-Country in "increase in happiness". If one sorts "World Happiness Report" according to "change in happiness 2005-2007", the top countries are mostly from the second- or third-world with the exception of South Korea.
  - aetherson 12y ago
    I think that the parsimonious explanation for that is that Korea's wealth per capita has exploded in the late 20th and early 21st Century.
ttty 12y ago
Check out my blog, what jobs do you have? :) http://webdesignporto.com/ http://webdesignporto.com/
dirktheman 12y ago
Same here at the number 4 on the list... I work 4 days a week, my wife works 3. My employer also works 4. My day off is awesome, and accounts for a lot of my happiness. And the happiness of my kids, I'm sure! US may be the leading in economy, but we (Northern and Western Europe) are way ahead of you guys when it comes to a healthy work-life balance...
- ams6110 12y ago
  Isn't it all very individual though? What if someone derives happiness and satisfaction from working? Should they be prohibited from working more than a set number of days/hours per week?
  - SonicSoul 12y ago
    I agree. most of my long hours are self imposed. Often time it's fun to finish things, or take longer to do something in the best way possible (vs rush through during normal hours), and have a certain number of accomplishments in a year. However I understand that other people may feel pressure to do the same even thought they value family life more. Some employers probably don't do a great job in encouraging the family life and set out goals that require extra hours to complete (over 40 hr work week), which is what such a regulation may aim to alleviate. In practice I think it will cause more harm by dabbling in company culture.
  - crpatino 12y ago
    You can always work from home if it is your fancy. It sucks if your employer owns whatever you do offsite, though. Specially if they do not pay overtime. You see... do not attribute to sloth that which can be explained by envy.
- s3nnyy 12y ago
  Maybe also that is why big things come from the US? True pain-points are more obvious in a place where one is not pampered and protected by society too much?
  - _dark_matter_ 12y ago
    Talk about jumping to conclusions. This is both a gross misunderstanding of their culture and government, as well as unsubstantiated claims of causation.
    - s3nnyy 12y ago
      I am not sure, if I can confirm this, but I find this really amusing: "If Hewlett and Packard tried running an electronics company out of their garage in Switzerland, the old lady next door would report them to the municipal authorities." http://www.paulgraham.com/america.html http://www.paulgraham.com/america.html (I guess, PG visited Switzerland, while he was an exchange student in Italy.)
_delirium 12y ago
It's recently also becoming common in Denmark to work only a few days a week, especially in tech. Working 2-4 days/week at a "regular" tech job is a popular way to fund your startup. Usually it's fairly linear, e.g. you can negotiate to work 75% time for 75% pay. The fact that companies don't typically provide benefits other than pay and pension contribution helps, I think. I have friends in the U.S. who are worried about going from "full-time" to "part-time" status, because they'd lose things like healthcare coverage, childcare, maternity/paternity leave, etc. But full-time vs. part-time doesn't matter as much when the social system is decoupled from employment.
fapjacks 12y ago
My ancestors are Swiss, and I have seriously considered moving back. :)
- grecy 12y ago
  At the very least, start the paperwork now to get your citizenship and passport. It only costs a few hundred dollars, and it's like having an ace up your sleeve. You might never use it, but the beauty is it's there if you want it. (I recently did ~18 months of paperwork to get my Polish citizenship and passport. I've never been to Europe, and really don't know if I ever will. But 10 years from now if I want to move there, I can)
  - fapjacks 12y ago
    I am VERY interested in what you are proposing, but I have no idea where to get more information. Can you please provide me with a couple of links you found useful in doing this?
    - grecy 12y ago
      It all depends on you and your family. Find out where your relatives are from (which countries), then start investigating the citizenship requirements for those countries. Your embassy for that country will likely even have a "citizenship application" section on their website that lays out exactly what you need and how to go about applying. In my case, Poland is a country that says you have the right to be a citizen if one of your parents is a citizen. Irrelevant that I've never been there, don't speak the language, etc. etc. My grandfather was born there and was a citizen before he passed away, so I pressured my Dad endlessly until he got his Polish citizenship (I did half the paperwork for him because he was being lazy....).. then once he had his citizenship I could go ahead and apply for mine. Obviously every country is going to be different, so it depends on where your relatives are from, and what the citizenship requirements for that country actually are. Also note if you're in the US, I think the US doesn't allow you to have citizenship from another country (don't quote me on that, I'm not a US citizen - well actually, it looks really strange[1]. I have no idea.) [1] http://travel.state.gov/content/travel/english/legal-considerations/us-citizenship-laws-policies/citizenship-and-dual-nationality/dual-nationality.html http://travel.state.gov/content/travel/english/legal-conside...
hobo_mark 12y ago
Excuse me? I work in CH and I have never heard of that, in fact it's not unheard of to have urgent work to be done on a saturday or sunday 'for free'.
- s3nnyy 12y ago
  The most curios job-offer I found recently is this: "Head of Development 20%" (means 1 day per week of work only): http://mindband.ch/were-hiring-junior-head-development-20 http://mindband.ch/were-hiring-junior-head-development-20
spindritf 12y ago
If you're from the EU and looking for a tech-job over here, I'd be happy to help out How important is it to speak German?
- s3nnyy 12y ago
  You'd be fine. Everything here (products etc.) have to be in at least two languages. In a city like Zurich, you'd get along very well in English only. Also, there are many companies around that have English as their "company language" (for instance Google) . Btw. Google-Maps was largely developed by Zooglers (Google's Zurich office). They call it also "the real mountain-view".
foxpc 12y ago
I'd think that Switzerland is one of the hardest countries to move to because of all the prices. Starting to live there should be VERY expensive. I wonder if anyone's had to go through that experience? P.S. I'd love to live in Switzerland, being in the somewhat-neutral land where you're not that threatened by Russia or other things that might make your days miserable :|
- s3nnyy 12y ago
  Actually, I try blogging about my experience moving here. You can read a first draft here: http://goo.gl/EIX4UX http://goo.gl/EIX4UX. Things are way cheaper than I thought, considering the salaries. As a Python entry-level developer who has to be pampered I make around 5000 Euro net-salary at a no-name SMB. I could make 10%-15% more at a bank doing Java. The bottom-line is that I can save 4000,- Euro each month, because I spend only 1000 Euro on accommodation and food. In only one year, I will be able to buy a two-room apartment in a German town (where I like to hangout on weekends), without taking a mortgage...
  - foxpc 12y ago
    That was an interesting read, thanks! Sounds like the country is amazing and giving. I'll have dreams about it tonight ;)

by s3nnyy 12y ago

mathattack 12y ago

I think working hours is just a symptom. Look at the funnel... Korean kids spend an ungodly amount of time in class and doing test prep. Putting a cosmetic limit to the amount of hours worked doesn't change society on it's own.

s3nnyy 12y ago
Yet, South Korea ranks high for a First-World-Country in "increase in happiness". If one sorts "World Happiness Report" according to "change in happiness 2005-2007", the top countries are mostly from the second- or third-world with the exception of South Korea.
- aetherson 12y ago
  I think that the parsimonious explanation for that is that Korea's wealth per capita has exploded in the late 20th and early 21st Century.

ttty 12y ago

Check out my blog, what jobs do you have? :) http://webdesignporto.com/ http://webdesignporto.com/

dirktheman 12y ago

Same here at the number 4 on the list... I work 4 days a week, my wife works 3. My employer also works 4. My day off is awesome, and accounts for a lot of my happiness. And the happiness of my kids, I'm sure! US may be the leading in economy, but we (Northern and Western Europe) are way ahead of you guys when it comes to a healthy work-life balance...

ams6110 12y ago
Isn't it all very individual though? What if someone derives happiness and satisfaction from working? Should they be prohibited from working more than a set number of days/hours per week?
- SonicSoul 12y ago
  I agree. most of my long hours are self imposed. Often time it's fun to finish things, or take longer to do something in the best way possible (vs rush through during normal hours), and have a certain number of accomplishments in a year. However I understand that other people may feel pressure to do the same even thought they value family life more. Some employers probably don't do a great job in encouraging the family life and set out goals that require extra hours to complete (over 40 hr work week), which is what such a regulation may aim to alleviate. In practice I think it will cause more harm by dabbling in company culture.
- crpatino 12y ago
  You can always work from home if it is your fancy. It sucks if your employer owns whatever you do offsite, though. Specially if they do not pay overtime. You see... do not attribute to sloth that which can be explained by envy.
s3nnyy 12y ago
Maybe also that is why big things come from the US? True pain-points are more obvious in a place where one is not pampered and protected by society too much?
- _dark_matter_ 12y ago
  Talk about jumping to conclusions. This is both a gross misunderstanding of their culture and government, as well as unsubstantiated claims of causation.
  - s3nnyy 12y ago
    I am not sure, if I can confirm this, but I find this really amusing: "If Hewlett and Packard tried running an electronics company out of their garage in Switzerland, the old lady next door would report them to the municipal authorities." http://www.paulgraham.com/america.html http://www.paulgraham.com/america.html (I guess, PG visited Switzerland, while he was an exchange student in Italy.)

_delirium 12y ago

It's recently also becoming common in Denmark to work only a few days a week, especially in tech. Working 2-4 days/week at a "regular" tech job is a popular way to fund your startup. Usually it's fairly linear, e.g. you can negotiate to work 75% time for 75% pay. The fact that companies don't typically provide benefits other than pay and pension contribution helps, I think. I have friends in the U.S. who are worried about going from "full-time" to "part-time" status, because they'd lose things like healthcare coverage, childcare, maternity/paternity leave, etc. But full-time vs. part-time doesn't matter as much when the social system is decoupled from employment.

fapjacks 12y ago

My ancestors are Swiss, and I have seriously considered moving back. :)

grecy 12y ago
At the very least, start the paperwork now to get your citizenship and passport. It only costs a few hundred dollars, and it's like having an ace up your sleeve. You might never use it, but the beauty is it's there if you want it. (I recently did ~18 months of paperwork to get my Polish citizenship and passport. I've never been to Europe, and really don't know if I ever will. But 10 years from now if I want to move there, I can)
- fapjacks 12y ago
  I am VERY interested in what you are proposing, but I have no idea where to get more information. Can you please provide me with a couple of links you found useful in doing this?
  - grecy 12y ago
    It all depends on you and your family. Find out where your relatives are from (which countries), then start investigating the citizenship requirements for those countries. Your embassy for that country will likely even have a "citizenship application" section on their website that lays out exactly what you need and how to go about applying. In my case, Poland is a country that says you have the right to be a citizen if one of your parents is a citizen. Irrelevant that I've never been there, don't speak the language, etc. etc. My grandfather was born there and was a citizen before he passed away, so I pressured my Dad endlessly until he got his Polish citizenship (I did half the paperwork for him because he was being lazy....).. then once he had his citizenship I could go ahead and apply for mine. Obviously every country is going to be different, so it depends on where your relatives are from, and what the citizenship requirements for that country actually are. Also note if you're in the US, I think the US doesn't allow you to have citizenship from another country (don't quote me on that, I'm not a US citizen - well actually, it looks really strange[1]. I have no idea.) [1] http://travel.state.gov/content/travel/english/legal-considerations/us-citizenship-laws-policies/citizenship-and-dual-nationality/dual-nationality.html http://travel.state.gov/content/travel/english/legal-conside...

hobo_mark 12y ago

Excuse me? I work in CH and I have never heard of that, in fact it's not unheard of to have urgent work to be done on a saturday or sunday 'for free'.

s3nnyy 12y ago
The most curios job-offer I found recently is this: "Head of Development 20%" (means 1 day per week of work only): http://mindband.ch/were-hiring-junior-head-development-20 http://mindband.ch/were-hiring-junior-head-development-20

spindritf 12y ago

If you're from the EU and looking for a tech-job over here, I'd be happy to help out How important is it to speak German?

s3nnyy 12y ago
You'd be fine. Everything here (products etc.) have to be in at least two languages. In a city like Zurich, you'd get along very well in English only. Also, there are many companies around that have English as their "company language" (for instance Google) . Btw. Google-Maps was largely developed by Zooglers (Google's Zurich office). They call it also "the real mountain-view".

foxpc 12y ago

I'd think that Switzerland is one of the hardest countries to move to because of all the prices. Starting to live there should be VERY expensive. I wonder if anyone's had to go through that experience? P.S. I'd love to live in Switzerland, being in the somewhat-neutral land where you're not that threatened by Russia or other things that might make your days miserable :|

s3nnyy 12y ago
Actually, I try blogging about my experience moving here. You can read a first draft here: http://goo.gl/EIX4UX http://goo.gl/EIX4UX. Things are way cheaper than I thought, considering the salaries. As a Python entry-level developer who has to be pampered I make around 5000 Euro net-salary at a no-name SMB. I could make 10%-15% more at a bank doing Java. The bottom-line is that I can save 4000,- Euro each month, because I spend only 1000 Euro on accommodation and food. In only one year, I will be able to buy a two-room apartment in a German town (where I like to hangout on weekends), without taking a mortgage...
- foxpc 12y ago
  That was an interesting read, thanks! Sounds like the country is amazing and giving. I'll have dreams about it tonight ;)