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> “It seems pretty clear that the industry just wants lower-cost labor,” It does, but that's not the issue. There is a shortage of good and qualified tech work

by mbesto 12y ago

> “It seems pretty clear that the industry just wants lower-cost labor,” It does, but that's not the issue. There is a shortage of good and qualified tech workers. Tech companies simply can't afford to pay whoever $120k/yr if their technology doesn't work.

ChuckMcM 12y ago
This comes up a lot. The "qualification" clause. So whose fault is it there isn't a lot of qualification? Workers or Employers? What I've found hiring people into my organization is that there are many, perhaps dozens, of ways in which people develop software, all with a great analogy name from 'waterfall' to 'agile' to 'pair' to 'artisnal' to 'hacking' and back again. They come with different ideas about what is expected of the engineer and what is expected of the manager. Have a standup meeting every week? Great, what are you achieving by that? Getting everyone on the same page? ok, but what about the guy off site? How about folks who work best in quiet offices, or those who work best in a noisy free-for-all, do you playfully criticize each other over bugs or do you have elaborate silent shunning rituals. The reality is that everyone I hire seems to come from a different school of training about how to be effective at programming, what does that say about qualification? This last job of mine has been my first extended stint at managing engineers and I have learned so much about what folks can and cannot be expected to understand or know before coming to the company. It has given me a lot of appreciation for the intake process that I didn't really have before.
- napoleond 12y ago
  I wish I could upvote this twice. Is it possible that the real shortage is in competent technical managers?
  - nikcub 12y ago
    The shortage of competent technical managers is massive. If you have the bare essentials of communication and project management skills, plus tech and have a good network to bring developers in - you're getting your email box torn apart with offers at the moment and wages are insane. The real tech shortage is in project management, VP Engineering, product management, experienced multi-stack or vertical developer roles. It is really far from indicative to compare all of STEM.
  - codeonfire 12y ago
    The problem is that managers are not hired for technical competency. They are political operatives. They are hired 100% based on the political system they are hired into. The reasons are in no way as noble as understanding software development. For instance, they might be hired because they make their boss look more important. They might be hired to conduct layoffs so their boss doesn't look evil. They might be hired because they are indentured h1b's themselves and have to do whatever their boss wants. No one has ever asked whether or not a management hire is technically competent and it doesn't really matter if they know anything or not.

by mbesto 12y ago

ChuckMcM 12y ago

This comes up a lot. The "qualification" clause. So whose fault is it there isn't a lot of qualification? Workers or Employers? What I've found hiring people into my organization is that there are many, perhaps dozens, of ways in which people develop software, all with a great analogy name from 'waterfall' to 'agile' to 'pair' to 'artisnal' to 'hacking' and back again. They come with different ideas about what is expected of the engineer and what is expected of the manager. Have a standup meeting every week? Great, what are you achieving by that? Getting everyone on the same page? ok, but what about the guy off site? How about folks who work best in quiet offices, or those who work best in a noisy free-for-all, do you playfully criticize each other over bugs or do you have elaborate silent shunning rituals. The reality is that everyone I hire seems to come from a different school of training about how to be effective at programming, what does that say about qualification? This last job of mine has been my first extended stint at managing engineers and I have learned so much about what folks can and cannot be expected to understand or know before coming to the company. It has given me a lot of appreciation for the intake process that I didn't really have before.

napoleond 12y ago
I wish I could upvote this twice. Is it possible that the real shortage is in competent technical managers?
- nikcub 12y ago
  The shortage of competent technical managers is massive. If you have the bare essentials of communication and project management skills, plus tech and have a good network to bring developers in - you're getting your email box torn apart with offers at the moment and wages are insane. The real tech shortage is in project management, VP Engineering, product management, experienced multi-stack or vertical developer roles. It is really far from indicative to compare all of STEM.
- codeonfire 12y ago
  The problem is that managers are not hired for technical competency. They are political operatives. They are hired 100% based on the political system they are hired into. The reasons are in no way as noble as understanding software development. For instance, they might be hired because they make their boss look more important. They might be hired to conduct layoffs so their boss doesn't look evil. They might be hired because they are indentured h1b's themselves and have to do whatever their boss wants. No one has ever asked whether or not a management hire is technically competent and it doesn't really matter if they know anything or not.