5 ms·

Intelligence has a lot of dimensions. It's not unreasonable to say focus is one of them.

by arram 17y ago

chrischen 17y ago
Supposedly Adderall stunts creativity. In this respect it makes you dumber. So it is unreasonable to say these drugs make you smarter.
- hristov 17y ago
  That's the problem -- anything that makes you "more focused" will stun your creativity and may cause you to obsessively repeat mindless tasks and anything that makes you more creative will prevent you from getting anything done. So in the end you may as well just use your original god-provided brain.
  - greml1n 17y ago
    This is a non-sensical argument. Where did you get this false spectrum of creative <-> focused from?
    - Alex3917 17y ago
      It's a pretty common belief. I've seen it numerous times online, not sure if I've ever seen it tested though.
    - chrischen 17y ago
      I've read it somewhere too. It makes sense if you think about it. In certain types of ADHD, the hyperactiity is in the thoughts. So the person would have more thoughts racing through his or her head than normal and this probably constitutes the creativity since they have more random thoughts to seed a good idea. The drive for this is thought to be caused by understimulation. In other words the mind is bored, so we start racing through thoughts to try to make something more exciting. What Adderall does is stimulate your mind so that it's no longer bored. Less random thoughts are needed and the person can focus on one thing better. Of course, the random thoughts, which constituted the creativity, is traded off. It's actually my theory behind how it works (I have ADHD).
  - jamesbritt 17y ago
    They're orthogonal. When I'm focused, I still get odd, interesting ideas popping in my head, but I have the wherewithal to either ignore them or to jot them down for latter. There's a difference between focused and indifferent. My experience with assorted nootropics is that, with the better ones, boring things are still boring, but I have the means to do them anyway if I have to.
    - chrischen 17y ago
      It hinders, it does not prevent you from being creative. And the reason why it would make you less creative is that it makes you more satisfied. When you are satisfied in your mind you naturally make less of an effort to strain your thoughts to come up with something exciting. If you're on nootropics and something is exciting, does it get more exciting? And something boring becomes doable because you have less urge to replace it with something more exciting. So it obviously would still seem comparatively boring.
      - jamesbritt 17y ago
        "And something boring becomes doable because you have less urge to replace it with something more exciting. " Oh no, the urge is still strong. I just resist it. It's the difference between a diet drug that reduces appetite, and one that does not change appetite, but gives you the resolve to not eat just because you feel hungry. In any event, I've never seen my creativity tied to any amount of satisfaction. Stuff just pops into my head. There are endless variations on things; it's not like one needs a reason to make stuff up, because it's intrinsically satisfying. EDIT: Also occurred to me that now, 2 months taking Adderal, I may be more creative than 3 months ago. I get more stuff done, and while doing things I have more interesting ideas than when just dicking around. So I'm at least more tangibly creative.
        chrischen 17y ago
        Strong is very subjective and relative. Why didn't you just resist it before taking Adderal then? What exactly does Adderal do for you then? It is not impossible for a good idea will just "pop into your head." But say I need to come up with a good idea on the spot. Maybe I'm designing a poster. What I would do in this situation is run through a shitload of various possibilities through my head. This is what I meant when I said creativity, your ability to think boundlessly. So some people might be better or worse at doing this. Now I believe the ADHD (at least inattentive subtype) sufferer has a problem where they cannot control this hyperactive thinking. So their minds are constantly polluted by a shitload of thoughts. This in term causes memory problem because so many new thoughts run through, it's like 5 hours of time passed in terms of thoughts when only 5 minutes has gone by. Well in comes Adderal and like I said before, it takes effect by stimulating the brain. So there is no more need to go through all those thoughts, since supposedly they go through those thoughts so that they could achieve mental stimulation. It hinders creativity in that the person no longer has racing thoughts all the time. Can they still pull that skill up on demand? Maybe. I have a prescription for Adderal and I haven't taken it yet. I don't really want to though. I can attest to my theory of the mechanism behind ADHD, but I am not as sure Adderal has this effect as I am sure about the mechanism behind ADHD-inattentive. However since I read online from user experiences and whatnot that adderal hinders creativity, and it makes sense seeing how it acts that it would do this, that's why I believe it probably hinders creativity.
- ddemchuk 17y ago
  It wouldn't be making you "dumber" then, it would simply be making you less creative. I know a lot of brilliant people who are not creative whatsoever. I also know a bunch of very creative people who would normally be considered dumb using common metrics. less creative != dumb
  - chrischen 17y ago
    I was following along johnny's reasoning. I was saying that if by his reasoning adderall makes you smart, then it makes you dumber too. He said there are various components to intelligence. Creativity could be one too. So if focus is one aspect and it is enhanced, and it makes you smart, then creativity, which is hindered makes you dumber. Sorry if I wasn't clear before.
    - johnnybgoode 17y ago
      I think you mean arram's reasoning? I agree that if adderall stunts creativity, it is at best somewhat misleading to say it makes you smarter. Imagine someone said this: "Hey, I found this new drug. It makes you smarter and less creative." That should be enough to make anyone go, "Huh?"
pyre 17y ago
So someone that is more focused can be reasonably defined as a 'smarter' or 'more intelligent' person? Somehow I don't really think this fits the majority view of what 'smarter' means, and when writing articles like this the majority view of the meaning of a word is what really matters (at least majority of your audience).

Intelligence has a lot of dimensions. It's not unreasonable to say focus is one of them.

by arram 17y ago

Intelligence has a lot of dimensions. It's not unreasonable to say focus is one of them.

Supposedly Adderall stunts creativity. In this respect it makes you dumber. So it is unreasonable to say these drugs make you smarter.

hristov 17y ago
That's the problem -- anything that makes you "more focused" will stun your creativity and may cause you to obsessively repeat mindless tasks and anything that makes you more creative will prevent you from getting anything done. So in the end you may as well just use your original god-provided brain.
- greml1n 17y ago
  This is a non-sensical argument. Where did you get this false spectrum of creative <-> focused from?
  - Alex3917 17y ago
    It's a pretty common belief. I've seen it numerous times online, not sure if I've ever seen it tested though.
  - chrischen 17y ago
    I've read it somewhere too. It makes sense if you think about it. In certain types of ADHD, the hyperactiity is in the thoughts. So the person would have more thoughts racing through his or her head than normal and this probably constitutes the creativity since they have more random thoughts to seed a good idea. The drive for this is thought to be caused by understimulation. In other words the mind is bored, so we start racing through thoughts to try to make something more exciting. What Adderall does is stimulate your mind so that it's no longer bored. Less random thoughts are needed and the person can focus on one thing better. Of course, the random thoughts, which constituted the creativity, is traded off. It's actually my theory behind how it works (I have ADHD).
- jamesbritt 17y ago
  They're orthogonal. When I'm focused, I still get odd, interesting ideas popping in my head, but I have the wherewithal to either ignore them or to jot them down for latter. There's a difference between focused and indifferent. My experience with assorted nootropics is that, with the better ones, boring things are still boring, but I have the means to do them anyway if I have to.
  - chrischen 17y ago
    It hinders, it does not prevent you from being creative. And the reason why it would make you less creative is that it makes you more satisfied. When you are satisfied in your mind you naturally make less of an effort to strain your thoughts to come up with something exciting. If you're on nootropics and something is exciting, does it get more exciting? And something boring becomes doable because you have less urge to replace it with something more exciting. So it obviously would still seem comparatively boring.
    - jamesbritt 17y ago
      "And something boring becomes doable because you have less urge to replace it with something more exciting. " Oh no, the urge is still strong. I just resist it. It's the difference between a diet drug that reduces appetite, and one that does not change appetite, but gives you the resolve to not eat just because you feel hungry. In any event, I've never seen my creativity tied to any amount of satisfaction. Stuff just pops into my head. There are endless variations on things; it's not like one needs a reason to make stuff up, because it's intrinsically satisfying. EDIT: Also occurred to me that now, 2 months taking Adderal, I may be more creative than 3 months ago. I get more stuff done, and while doing things I have more interesting ideas than when just dicking around. So I'm at least more tangibly creative.
      - chrischen 17y ago
        Strong is very subjective and relative. Why didn't you just resist it before taking Adderal then? What exactly does Adderal do for you then? It is not impossible for a good idea will just "pop into your head." But say I need to come up with a good idea on the spot. Maybe I'm designing a poster. What I would do in this situation is run through a shitload of various possibilities through my head. This is what I meant when I said creativity, your ability to think boundlessly. So some people might be better or worse at doing this. Now I believe the ADHD (at least inattentive subtype) sufferer has a problem where they cannot control this hyperactive thinking. So their minds are constantly polluted by a shitload of thoughts. This in term causes memory problem because so many new thoughts run through, it's like 5 hours of time passed in terms of thoughts when only 5 minutes has gone by. Well in comes Adderal and like I said before, it takes effect by stimulating the brain. So there is no more need to go through all those thoughts, since supposedly they go through those thoughts so that they could achieve mental stimulation. It hinders creativity in that the person no longer has racing thoughts all the time. Can they still pull that skill up on demand? Maybe. I have a prescription for Adderal and I haven't taken it yet. I don't really want to though. I can attest to my theory of the mechanism behind ADHD, but I am not as sure Adderal has this effect as I am sure about the mechanism behind ADHD-inattentive. However since I read online from user experiences and whatnot that adderal hinders creativity, and it makes sense seeing how it acts that it would do this, that's why I believe it probably hinders creativity.
ddemchuk 17y ago
It wouldn't be making you "dumber" then, it would simply be making you less creative. I know a lot of brilliant people who are not creative whatsoever. I also know a bunch of very creative people who would normally be considered dumb using common metrics. less creative != dumb
- chrischen 17y ago
  I was following along johnny's reasoning. I was saying that if by his reasoning adderall makes you smart, then it makes you dumber too. He said there are various components to intelligence. Creativity could be one too. So if focus is one aspect and it is enhanced, and it makes you smart, then creativity, which is hindered makes you dumber. Sorry if I wasn't clear before.
  - johnnybgoode 17y ago
    I think you mean arram's reasoning? I agree that if adderall stunts creativity, it is at best somewhat misleading to say it makes you smarter. Imagine someone said this: "Hey, I found this new drug. It makes you smarter and less creative." That should be enough to make anyone go, "Huh?"

pyre 17y ago

So someone that is more focused can be reasonably defined as a 'smarter' or 'more intelligent' person? Somehow I don't really think this fits the majority view of what 'smarter' means, and when writing articles like this the majority view of the meaning of a word is what really matters (at least majority of your audience).