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No way is it fair use since they are doing entire articles. Reddit will get DCMA safe harbor protection as long as they aren't aware of the specifics. The use

No way is it fair use since they are doing entire articles. Reddit will get DCMA safe harbor protection as long as they aren't aware of the specifics. The users requesting and providing the papers are probably infringing copyright. Not that I blame them. I'm an IP attorney and I think the pricing and availability of articles to those outside of academia is total shit. I was trying to do some prior art research and it is essentially impossible without academic access. I ended up going to the Library of Congress and do the research there.

sp332 12y ago
A use doesn't have to fall under all four factors to be "fair". Educational, noncommercial use can certainly be fair use.
- sillysaurus3 12y ago
  Circumventing the fee is in no way fair to the corporation trying to charge the fee, especially when the corporation expressly wants to force each of those people to pay the fee. I can't rip off a book for my personal education. Same with an academic article. No matter how much we wish the world was different, that's how the law is currently set up.
  - NoodleIncident 12y ago
    Bad example... people can and do buy books, and let anyone who comes over to their place read them. They even let complete strangers take the books home for a short time, you just have to fill out a form to get a card from them first. The fact that digital copies are rather easier to loan out, and the fact that you don't much care if you get the copy back, shouldn't make /r/scholar illegal. It might, but it shouldn't.
    - dredmorbius 12y ago
      Though in your "fill out a form" example, libraries do often pay much higher fees for works (particularly journals).
  - bnegreve 12y ago
    The law in not that absolute, some constitutions include the right of revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_revolution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_revolution) Without going this far, I personally think civil disobedience is ok in that case. How can you change the law, if the law is absolute? (I've noticed that this is a rather controversial opinion though.)
- MichaelApproved 12y ago
  That's just one piece to "fair use". In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include: * the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes; * the nature of the copyrighted work; * the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and * the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work. It doesn't have to pass all those tests but it likely will need to pass more than just one of them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
  - dredmorbius 12y ago
    AFAIU the use needn't pass any of the tests. Fair Use is an affirmative defense. That is: it's not a right to use copyrighted works, but, in the event infringement is alleged, it may be invoked as a defense. Specifically the language of US statute is "the factors to be considered shall include". Which can be read as also allowing other considerations. Though I don't know offhand of specific legal gloss or caselaw demonstrating otherwise. The Wikipedia article you cite has that specific claim flagged as "citation required" at this time.
- stinkytaco 12y ago
  It can be, but it being educational certainly doesn't make it fair use. If this was the case, no text book, teacher's curriculum book or documentary could be copyrighted. I doubt publishers who work in the education realm would be happy with this (and I'm not just talking about cartel level college text books here, but Kindergarten curriculum all the way on up). This has been litigated in a number of "copy shop" cases (the most important involving UT and Elsiver if I'm not mistaken, but I can't look it up just now) and this is almost certainly not fair use.

sp332 12y ago

A use doesn't have to fall under all four factors to be "fair". Educational, noncommercial use can certainly be fair use.

sillysaurus3 12y ago
Circumventing the fee is in no way fair to the corporation trying to charge the fee, especially when the corporation expressly wants to force each of those people to pay the fee. I can't rip off a book for my personal education. Same with an academic article. No matter how much we wish the world was different, that's how the law is currently set up.
- NoodleIncident 12y ago
  Bad example... people can and do buy books, and let anyone who comes over to their place read them. They even let complete strangers take the books home for a short time, you just have to fill out a form to get a card from them first. The fact that digital copies are rather easier to loan out, and the fact that you don't much care if you get the copy back, shouldn't make /r/scholar illegal. It might, but it shouldn't.
  - dredmorbius 12y ago
    Though in your "fill out a form" example, libraries do often pay much higher fees for works (particularly journals).
- bnegreve 12y ago
  The law in not that absolute, some constitutions include the right of revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_revolution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_revolution) Without going this far, I personally think civil disobedience is ok in that case. How can you change the law, if the law is absolute? (I've noticed that this is a rather controversial opinion though.)
MichaelApproved 12y ago
That's just one piece to "fair use". In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include: * the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes; * the nature of the copyrighted work; * the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and * the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work. It doesn't have to pass all those tests but it likely will need to pass more than just one of them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
- dredmorbius 12y ago
  AFAIU the use needn't pass any of the tests. Fair Use is an affirmative defense. That is: it's not a right to use copyrighted works, but, in the event infringement is alleged, it may be invoked as a defense. Specifically the language of US statute is "the factors to be considered shall include". Which can be read as also allowing other considerations. Though I don't know offhand of specific legal gloss or caselaw demonstrating otherwise. The Wikipedia article you cite has that specific claim flagged as "citation required" at this time.
stinkytaco 12y ago
It can be, but it being educational certainly doesn't make it fair use. If this was the case, no text book, teacher's curriculum book or documentary could be copyrighted. I doubt publishers who work in the education realm would be happy with this (and I'm not just talking about cartel level college text books here, but Kindergarten curriculum all the way on up). This has been litigated in a number of "copy shop" cases (the most important involving UT and Elsiver if I'm not mistaken, but I can't look it up just now) and this is almost certainly not fair use.