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Countries with lower levels of economic development often have the highest ratios of female engineers and wealthier countries often have the lowest ratios. One

Countries with lower levels of economic development often have the highest ratios of female engineers and wealthier countries often have the lowest ratios. One explanation is once you're free to do whatever you want and you don't have to worry about expectations or putting food on the table so much, the influence of subtle innate genetic preferences actually become much more apparent in some ways. However, this explanation goes against the rules of the western view that predominates, that the gender ratio of fewer women in some area (but often not when there are fewer men in some area) mean is proof in point that women are being harmed and should be given assistance. If discrimination causes the difference, why do countries like Iran or Saudi Arabia have around the highest ratios of female engineers and countries like the Netherlands or Norway around the lowest?

spcoll 12y ago
Are you denying that women are being heavily discriminated against in developed countries, like Norway or the Netherlands? Technology and entrepreneurship are very attractive in terms of social prestige and salary, therefore if women weren't being harassed and discouraged by men from entering these fields, you would be seeing roughly 50% of female engineers and entrepreneurs. Maybe even somewhat more, since women tend to be smarter than men on average (which is why girls tend to succeed better in school than boys). Edit: here come the downvotes from males in denial. If you feel the need to downvote me because I am stating a simple fact, you are part of the problem.
- aragot 12y ago
  > since women tend to be smarter than men on average Ok, we need to stop with sexist insults right now, and it's valid for men too. Define "smarter".
  - barry-cotter 12y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_intelligence#Current_research_on_general_intelligence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_intelligenc... According to the 1994 report "Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns" by the American Psychological Association, "Most standard tests of intelligence have been constructed so that there are no overall score differences between females and males." Differences have been found, however, in specific areas such as mathematics and verbal measures.[9] When standardized IQ tests were first developed in the early 20th century, girls typically scored higher than boys until age 14, at which time the curve for girls dropped below that for boys.[8][10] As testing methodology was revised, efforts were made to equalize gender performance.[10][11][12] The mean IQ scores between men and women vary little.[9][13][14][15][16] The variability of male scores is greater than that of females, however, resulting in more males than females in the top and bottom of the IQ distribution.[17]
    - aragot 12y ago
      It says differences in average IQ gender gap are either small or biased by the methodology, unless I'm mistaken.
- Dewie 12y ago
  > Are you denying that women are being heavily discriminated against in developed countries, like Norway or the Netherlands? Are they? That hasn't been my experience, in Norway. I'm not a woman though. > Technology and entrepreneurship are very attractive in terms of social prestige and salary, I don't know if they really are. Maybe entrepreneurship, but IT/programming seems pretty meh as far as prestige goes. And since wages are relatively similar across the board, someone with a Masters in computer science might not earn terribly much more than someone with qualifications in some craft, like plumbing or being a mechanic. > , therefore if women weren't being harassed and discouraged by men from entering these fields, you would be seeing roughly 50% of female engineers and entrepreneurs. Fallacious reasoning; you ignore all the myriads of variables that go into human motivation. > Maybe even somewhat more, since women tend to be smarter than men on average (which is why girls tend to succeed better in school than boys). If it were the other way around, you'd say that that was proof of heavy discrimination towards women. Come on now - tell me that I'm wrong.
  - spcoll 12y ago
    > Are they? That hasn't been my experience Examples are abundant and easy to find. Here is an example of sexism and discrimination coming from Paul Graham. Highly relevant to this discussion about female founders at YC. http://www.thewire.com/technology/2013/12/paul-graham-revives-sexism-tech-talk/356541/ http://www.thewire.com/technology/2013/12/paul-graham-revive... Women are getting harassed and discriminated against in Silicon Valley tech companies all the time. Take this example from Github: http://www.theverge.com/2014/3/19/5526574/github-sexism-scandal-julie-ann-horvath http://www.theverge.com/2014/3/19/5526574/github-sexism-scan... This needs to stop. And comments like yours are just one more example of how deeply rooted sexism is on this site.
    - hackinthebochs 12y ago
      It's funny you picked those two examples as the PG one isn't sexism at all, just quotes taken out of context. The second one, once the details came out showed was an unfortunate situation but also not really an example of sexism (IIRC). If those examples are the best you can come up with then that really undermines your premise.

spcoll 12y ago

Are you denying that women are being heavily discriminated against in developed countries, like Norway or the Netherlands? Technology and entrepreneurship are very attractive in terms of social prestige and salary, therefore if women weren't being harassed and discouraged by men from entering these fields, you would be seeing roughly 50% of female engineers and entrepreneurs. Maybe even somewhat more, since women tend to be smarter than men on average (which is why girls tend to succeed better in school than boys). Edit: here come the downvotes from males in denial. If you feel the need to downvote me because I am stating a simple fact, you are part of the problem.

aragot 12y ago
> since women tend to be smarter than men on average Ok, we need to stop with sexist insults right now, and it's valid for men too. Define "smarter".
- barry-cotter 12y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_intelligence#Current_research_on_general_intelligence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_intelligenc... According to the 1994 report "Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns" by the American Psychological Association, "Most standard tests of intelligence have been constructed so that there are no overall score differences between females and males." Differences have been found, however, in specific areas such as mathematics and verbal measures.[9] When standardized IQ tests were first developed in the early 20th century, girls typically scored higher than boys until age 14, at which time the curve for girls dropped below that for boys.[8][10] As testing methodology was revised, efforts were made to equalize gender performance.[10][11][12] The mean IQ scores between men and women vary little.[9][13][14][15][16] The variability of male scores is greater than that of females, however, resulting in more males than females in the top and bottom of the IQ distribution.[17]
  - aragot 12y ago
    It says differences in average IQ gender gap are either small or biased by the methodology, unless I'm mistaken.
Dewie 12y ago
> Are you denying that women are being heavily discriminated against in developed countries, like Norway or the Netherlands? Are they? That hasn't been my experience, in Norway. I'm not a woman though. > Technology and entrepreneurship are very attractive in terms of social prestige and salary, I don't know if they really are. Maybe entrepreneurship, but IT/programming seems pretty meh as far as prestige goes. And since wages are relatively similar across the board, someone with a Masters in computer science might not earn terribly much more than someone with qualifications in some craft, like plumbing or being a mechanic. > , therefore if women weren't being harassed and discouraged by men from entering these fields, you would be seeing roughly 50% of female engineers and entrepreneurs. Fallacious reasoning; you ignore all the myriads of variables that go into human motivation. > Maybe even somewhat more, since women tend to be smarter than men on average (which is why girls tend to succeed better in school than boys). If it were the other way around, you'd say that that was proof of heavy discrimination towards women. Come on now - tell me that I'm wrong.
- spcoll 12y ago
  > Are they? That hasn't been my experience Examples are abundant and easy to find. Here is an example of sexism and discrimination coming from Paul Graham. Highly relevant to this discussion about female founders at YC. http://www.thewire.com/technology/2013/12/paul-graham-revives-sexism-tech-talk/356541/ http://www.thewire.com/technology/2013/12/paul-graham-revive... Women are getting harassed and discriminated against in Silicon Valley tech companies all the time. Take this example from Github: http://www.theverge.com/2014/3/19/5526574/github-sexism-scandal-julie-ann-horvath http://www.theverge.com/2014/3/19/5526574/github-sexism-scan... This needs to stop. And comments like yours are just one more example of how deeply rooted sexism is on this site.
  - hackinthebochs 12y ago
    It's funny you picked those two examples as the PG one isn't sexism at all, just quotes taken out of context. The second one, once the details came out showed was an unfortunate situation but also not really an example of sexism (IIRC). If those examples are the best you can come up with then that really undermines your premise.