5 ms·

I don't think affordable childcare is a women's only issue. Men have children too.

pistle 12y ago
Nobody says that it's only a women's issue. But, if that servers your rhetorical needs, you keep putting those words in peoples' mouths. Childcare is vastly a burden born by women, thus considered a women's issue. That doesn't mean "there are no men who are burdened by childcare." It means that, in aggregate, the impact falls far more on the women. It's so egalitarian of you to not want it to be so, but until women are paid the same and men are taking on equal responsibilities (in aggregate) with the child rearing, the feigned "equality uber alles" cry is the fight song of the MRA. "I found an outlier, therefore WOE ARE THE MEN MEN MEN!!"
- tptacek 12y ago
  Child care is not a "women's issue". That idea has the unique property of being insulting both to women and to men in equal measure. No institutional change is going to solve child care for company founders --- which is, after all, what we're talking about here. If your "investors" provide child care, double check to make sure their proper title isn't "employer". Tech workers with young families should be especially careful about asking for child care benefits. They're a powerful form of lock-in for employees. Altering child-care arrangements is often traumatic for everyone involved, and is at the very least a logistical headache that most people who change jobs don't have to face. Tech jobs are already very amenable to child-care arrangements. They almost always feature flexible hours and often support WFH arrangements. The problem with tech isn't that it fails to account for child care. The problem is that tech companies have a terrible habit of stigmatizing child care responsibilities†. That's what needs to change, not the child care itself. † https://www.dropbox.com/s/s4npejyy4hg76tj/Screenshot%202014-11-24%2013.11.08.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/s4npejyy4hg76tj/Screenshot%202014-...
  - jacalata 12y ago
    Child care is not a 'women's issue', but it is an issue that has a disproportionate impact on women and therefore one that should come up earlier in a discussion on "how can we better support women" than in the equivalent discussion of "how can we better support men".
    - tptacek 12y ago
      The rest of my comment, after the first few words that prompted you to respond, addresses your sentiment. What did I miss?
      - jacalata 12y ago
        I don't see where your comment addresses my sentiment that childcare is more of an issue for women than men? It seems to be talking about the risks of having childcare through an employer, which is valid (like healthcare) but a different aspect of the topic.
  - pistle 12y ago
    We can play semantic games all day, but the work is something women still take on, even in "equal" households, in disproportionate amount. http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/parentingtime.htm http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/parentingtime.htm Maybe you mean that men worry about it just as much, which is what other studies say. I was also talking about more than just tech jobs and start-up culture. If that's all we worry about, there is no solution.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    I feel like you and parent comment agree and are talking at crossed purposes. > Child care is not a "women's issue". That idea has the unique property of being insulting both to women and to men in equal measure. You ignore the reality of very many women who cannot work because sexist society has decided that child care is something the woman needs to sort out. It's changing, but not fast enough. There are very many more women than men unable to get work because of a lack of child care.
    - tptacek 12y ago
      There is no child care fix to women's low participation in tech entrepreneurship. Founders need to provide their own services. That's the nature of starting a new firm. And, if we broaden the discussion to women's participation in the tech industry as employees, there are good reasons to be cautious about company interventions in child care. There is a child care issue in startuplandia: it's that child care is stigmatized. A more cynical commenter might say that an attempt to bring child care into the discussion at all is simply an effort to keep pushing back on founders with young families. Surely, I'm not that cynical. Obviously, I don't think it's right that women should be forced to shoulder more of the child care burden than men. But we don't even have to reach that argument to dispose of the "child care" issue on this thread.
klunger 12y ago
True, but, that is not the issue. While both men and women are indeed needed for baby-making, the burden of child care falls disproportionately on women in our society. So, male founders with young children can reasonably expect their child to be cared for by their partner while they dedicate all of their time to YC. But, the same cannot be said of potential female founders. It is not sexist to recognize this unfortunate state of affairs and suggest that child care support be considered an issue particularly important to women. Thus, since YC expects their founders to spend most of their waking hours working on their start-up, they need to provide adequate child care support, if they want to have women with children among their founders (at least, those who are not already extremely rich and can afford the outrageous child care rates in SF).
- tptacek 12y ago
  It doesn't even make sense for an investor to provide office space, or even payroll services. How could it possibly make sense for them to provide child care? This is a red herring. In fact, it comes across a little like "well, thing will be better for women once society fixes their expectations about child care". No. Women are perfectly capable of balancing their child care needs inside their families using their own support networks. Child care is a private issue. Founders are adults. Don't infantilize them. Don't try to run their families for them. What needs to stop happening is people bringing up child care as an impediment to entrepreneurship. That's the child care problem we have in startupland.

Nobody says that it's only a women's issue. But, if that servers your rhetorical needs, you keep putting those words in peoples' mouths. Childcare is vastly a burden born by women, thus considered a women's issue. That doesn't mean "there are no men who are burdened by childcare." It means that, in aggregate, the impact falls far more on the women. It's so egalitarian of you to not want it to be so, but until women are paid the same and men are taking on equal responsibilities (in aggregate) with the child rearing, the feigned "equality uber alles" cry is the fight song of the MRA. "I found an outlier, therefore WOE ARE THE MEN MEN MEN!!"

tptacek 12y ago
Child care is not a "women's issue". That idea has the unique property of being insulting both to women and to men in equal measure. No institutional change is going to solve child care for company founders --- which is, after all, what we're talking about here. If your "investors" provide child care, double check to make sure their proper title isn't "employer". Tech workers with young families should be especially careful about asking for child care benefits. They're a powerful form of lock-in for employees. Altering child-care arrangements is often traumatic for everyone involved, and is at the very least a logistical headache that most people who change jobs don't have to face. Tech jobs are already very amenable to child-care arrangements. They almost always feature flexible hours and often support WFH arrangements. The problem with tech isn't that it fails to account for child care. The problem is that tech companies have a terrible habit of stigmatizing child care responsibilities†. That's what needs to change, not the child care itself. † https://www.dropbox.com/s/s4npejyy4hg76tj/Screenshot%202014-11-24%2013.11.08.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/s4npejyy4hg76tj/Screenshot%202014-...
- jacalata 12y ago
  Child care is not a 'women's issue', but it is an issue that has a disproportionate impact on women and therefore one that should come up earlier in a discussion on "how can we better support women" than in the equivalent discussion of "how can we better support men".
  - tptacek 12y ago
    The rest of my comment, after the first few words that prompted you to respond, addresses your sentiment. What did I miss?
    - jacalata 12y ago
      I don't see where your comment addresses my sentiment that childcare is more of an issue for women than men? It seems to be talking about the risks of having childcare through an employer, which is valid (like healthcare) but a different aspect of the topic.
- pistle 12y ago
  We can play semantic games all day, but the work is something women still take on, even in "equal" households, in disproportionate amount. http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/parentingtime.htm http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/parentingtime.htm Maybe you mean that men worry about it just as much, which is what other studies say. I was also talking about more than just tech jobs and start-up culture. If that's all we worry about, there is no solution.
- DanBC 12y ago
  I feel like you and parent comment agree and are talking at crossed purposes. > Child care is not a "women's issue". That idea has the unique property of being insulting both to women and to men in equal measure. You ignore the reality of very many women who cannot work because sexist society has decided that child care is something the woman needs to sort out. It's changing, but not fast enough. There are very many more women than men unable to get work because of a lack of child care.
  - tptacek 12y ago
    There is no child care fix to women's low participation in tech entrepreneurship. Founders need to provide their own services. That's the nature of starting a new firm. And, if we broaden the discussion to women's participation in the tech industry as employees, there are good reasons to be cautious about company interventions in child care. There is a child care issue in startuplandia: it's that child care is stigmatized. A more cynical commenter might say that an attempt to bring child care into the discussion at all is simply an effort to keep pushing back on founders with young families. Surely, I'm not that cynical. Obviously, I don't think it's right that women should be forced to shoulder more of the child care burden than men. But we don't even have to reach that argument to dispose of the "child care" issue on this thread.

klunger 12y ago

True, but, that is not the issue. While both men and women are indeed needed for baby-making, the burden of child care falls disproportionately on women in our society. So, male founders with young children can reasonably expect their child to be cared for by their partner while they dedicate all of their time to YC. But, the same cannot be said of potential female founders. It is not sexist to recognize this unfortunate state of affairs and suggest that child care support be considered an issue particularly important to women. Thus, since YC expects their founders to spend most of their waking hours working on their start-up, they need to provide adequate child care support, if they want to have women with children among their founders (at least, those who are not already extremely rich and can afford the outrageous child care rates in SF).

tptacek 12y ago
It doesn't even make sense for an investor to provide office space, or even payroll services. How could it possibly make sense for them to provide child care? This is a red herring. In fact, it comes across a little like "well, thing will be better for women once society fixes their expectations about child care". No. Women are perfectly capable of balancing their child care needs inside their families using their own support networks. Child care is a private issue. Founders are adults. Don't infantilize them. Don't try to run their families for them. What needs to stop happening is people bringing up child care as an impediment to entrepreneurship. That's the child care problem we have in startupland.