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> One of the most consistent patterns is how many founders wished they'd learned to program when they were younger. I wonder what some of the reasons would lea

> One of the most consistent patterns is how many founders wished they'd learned to program when they were younger. I wonder what some of the reasons would lead them to have this wish. Is it a matter of having a missing skillset that slowed down growth of their startups or they later found that the really liked to write software and regret not finding out until later in life. Or possibly other reasons?

tomp 12y ago
I'd say it's two things: (1) programming is relatively useful compared to other skills you can learn by yourself in your childhood, and (2) it's relatively hard, in the sense that it requires a long time to learn. Many people I meet who see how well-paid programmers are wish the same thing; founders probably doubly so (since programming is such a big part of most modern startups).
debacle 12y ago
Being able to interface with a computer on an instruction level basically allows you to circumvent the mathematical limitations of our biological pattern matching apparatuses. Learning to program is to thinking as learning to drive is to traveling.
- kyberias 12y ago
  I don't see any obvious reason for you being downvoted but maybe you should elaborate on this: "mathematical limitations of our biological pattern matching apparatuses".
  - debacle 12y ago
    I'm getting downvoted because I made a comment below about how I was more interested in the statistics behind this phenomenon than the people, and apparently that's not okay. This post was at +4 before people started downvoting all of my comments on this discussion. I'm not too worried about it. Some people need to cling to that iota of power that an inverted triangle can offer.
  - cwal37 12y ago
    Probably because it's way over the top. That comparison proposes that people who can't program have a huge mental deficit compared to those who can. There are plenty of programmers out there who are not particularly proficient at thinking, and plenty of extremely intelligent people who aren't programmers. It's a needlessly breathless and self-congratulatory comparison, with limited perspective on the outside world.
    - alexbecker 12y ago
      I don't think the comparison means that programmers can think better than non-programmers, but that computers can (for certain problems) and that programmers can take advantage of that.
zxcvvcxz 12y ago
Seems fairly obvious. A lot of web startups need little more than an MVP to be effective for proving the concept or even gaining users and revenue. Something that can probably be put together in 3 months. Being able to do this yourself - a skill accessible to anyone who coded for a few years - seems like a better alternative than haggling over 120k/yr developers and dealing with the struggles of no product / no dev / no money. Either of those factors could lead to gaining the others. So instead of having none, you could be the dev!
- k__ 12y ago
  This. Keeping minimal viability isn't just about the software itself. As a founder you have other problems than dealing with people that don't give you money or even cost you. Every person who contributes to the product is a possible help and a possible problem.
- Alex3917 12y ago
  This is absolutely true, and teaching myself to code is one of the best decisions I've ever made for exactly these reasons (and more). That said, I'm not upset that I wasn't a CS major in college. While there are certain things that I'll probably never have the skills to build, at the same time I see so many CS majors making fundamental product and business errors that I'm able to recognize and at least hopefully avoid thanks to previous experience in other areas. Knowing how to code is really important, but there are other skills and knowledge areas that are important also. We absolutely need people who are really good at coding and CS to the point where that's all they focus on. But for everyone else, what's important isn't so much when you learned to code but rather what you've spent your time learning and doing in general.
dmor 12y ago
Seems kind of like how many people wish they'd found their significant other, or their dream job, earlier in life. They would have found happiness and fulfillment sooner. I started programming at 14 and I think it had a huge influence on my approach to problem solving and learning in general, so maybe some people also see that and wish they could have experienced that influence from a young age, too.
danielweber 12y ago
I suspect that the community values people more who started coding earlier, even if that isn't of actual value, and they want to clear that credential. The use of proxies (instead of actual skill) should make any professional nervous. You might be perfectly suited for all the proxies now, but in 5 years maybe all the proxies will change. You'll go to interviews and find out that the metagame changed on you. That can be interesting in Pokémon, but it's a hell of a way to earn a living.
mercer 12y ago
See, what fascinates me is that it might be possible that many of these founders would not have become founders if they'd gotten 'hooked' on programming at a young age. Perhaps the very fact that they did other things, possibly more outward and social in nature, gave them the characteristics that led to them becoming founders. I've found it's generally not a good idea to play these kinds of 'what if' games, because it's easy to pick the stuff you'd like to do different, but much harder to see the unintended, undesired consequences this different path might've had. Furthermore, I believe that saying 'I wish I had done x' can also cause a passive attitude that keeps one from 'doing x now anyways'. But I must admit that I have little evidence to show for this belief...

tomp 12y ago

I'd say it's two things: (1) programming is relatively useful compared to other skills you can learn by yourself in your childhood, and (2) it's relatively hard, in the sense that it requires a long time to learn. Many people I meet who see how well-paid programmers are wish the same thing; founders probably doubly so (since programming is such a big part of most modern startups).

debacle 12y ago

Being able to interface with a computer on an instruction level basically allows you to circumvent the mathematical limitations of our biological pattern matching apparatuses. Learning to program is to thinking as learning to drive is to traveling.

kyberias 12y ago
I don't see any obvious reason for you being downvoted but maybe you should elaborate on this: "mathematical limitations of our biological pattern matching apparatuses".
- debacle 12y ago
  I'm getting downvoted because I made a comment below about how I was more interested in the statistics behind this phenomenon than the people, and apparently that's not okay. This post was at +4 before people started downvoting all of my comments on this discussion. I'm not too worried about it. Some people need to cling to that iota of power that an inverted triangle can offer.
- cwal37 12y ago
  Probably because it's way over the top. That comparison proposes that people who can't program have a huge mental deficit compared to those who can. There are plenty of programmers out there who are not particularly proficient at thinking, and plenty of extremely intelligent people who aren't programmers. It's a needlessly breathless and self-congratulatory comparison, with limited perspective on the outside world.
  - alexbecker 12y ago
    I don't think the comparison means that programmers can think better than non-programmers, but that computers can (for certain problems) and that programmers can take advantage of that.

zxcvvcxz 12y ago

Seems fairly obvious. A lot of web startups need little more than an MVP to be effective for proving the concept or even gaining users and revenue. Something that can probably be put together in 3 months. Being able to do this yourself - a skill accessible to anyone who coded for a few years - seems like a better alternative than haggling over 120k/yr developers and dealing with the struggles of no product / no dev / no money. Either of those factors could lead to gaining the others. So instead of having none, you could be the dev!

k__ 12y ago
This. Keeping minimal viability isn't just about the software itself. As a founder you have other problems than dealing with people that don't give you money or even cost you. Every person who contributes to the product is a possible help and a possible problem.
Alex3917 12y ago
This is absolutely true, and teaching myself to code is one of the best decisions I've ever made for exactly these reasons (and more). That said, I'm not upset that I wasn't a CS major in college. While there are certain things that I'll probably never have the skills to build, at the same time I see so many CS majors making fundamental product and business errors that I'm able to recognize and at least hopefully avoid thanks to previous experience in other areas. Knowing how to code is really important, but there are other skills and knowledge areas that are important also. We absolutely need people who are really good at coding and CS to the point where that's all they focus on. But for everyone else, what's important isn't so much when you learned to code but rather what you've spent your time learning and doing in general.

dmor 12y ago

Seems kind of like how many people wish they'd found their significant other, or their dream job, earlier in life. They would have found happiness and fulfillment sooner. I started programming at 14 and I think it had a huge influence on my approach to problem solving and learning in general, so maybe some people also see that and wish they could have experienced that influence from a young age, too.

danielweber 12y ago

I suspect that the community values people more who started coding earlier, even if that isn't of actual value, and they want to clear that credential. The use of proxies (instead of actual skill) should make any professional nervous. You might be perfectly suited for all the proxies now, but in 5 years maybe all the proxies will change. You'll go to interviews and find out that the metagame changed on you. That can be interesting in Pokémon, but it's a hell of a way to earn a living.

mercer 12y ago

See, what fascinates me is that it might be possible that many of these founders would not have become founders if they'd gotten 'hooked' on programming at a young age. Perhaps the very fact that they did other things, possibly more outward and social in nature, gave them the characteristics that led to them becoming founders. I've found it's generally not a good idea to play these kinds of 'what if' games, because it's easy to pick the stuff you'd like to do different, but much harder to see the unintended, undesired consequences this different path might've had. Furthermore, I believe that saying 'I wish I had done x' can also cause a passive attitude that keeps one from 'doing x now anyways'. But I must admit that I have little evidence to show for this belief...