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Not sure I'd agree with "the general public does not see these products as easy to use or convenient as they’d hope" Redo the analogy and instead of a Nest pro

by VLM 12y ago

Not sure I'd agree with "the general public does not see these products as easy to use or convenient as they’d hope" Redo the analogy and instead of a Nest promotional article comparing the Nest to other thermostats, compare to a nearly identical home improvement product like fiberglass insulation. After all, you're competing with every product on every shelf at Home Depot, not just smart thermostats, so this appears superficially fair. In more detailed analysis, its an even more fair apples to apples comparison. The financials are similar although insulation pays off sooner and the capital expense is almost infinitely more flexible. The ease of use for insulation is off the charts compared to a Nest, you simply install it and keep it dry and watch the energy bill drop. The convenience factor for insulation compared to a Nest is also off the charts, insulation never requires firmware upgrades or wifi access and has a much longer useful lifetime than "typical electronic gadget" or even modern dumb thermostats. Overall a batt of fiberglass insulation beats the nest on all specified marketing criteria. Yet, most homes could use more / better insulation despite insulation having been marketed for decades and the nest being a newcomer to the space. If you can't sell insulation to these people, you're never going to sell them a Nest using the same marketing message. Marketing messages usually have little to do with the actual product, so a message that is unusually close to the facts of the product is statistically likely to be wrong.

nasalgoat 12y ago
Most homes already have a thermostat installed, making a Nest install pretty easy. Insulation generally requires open walls and/or roof to install, upping the difficulty a great deal.
wodenokoto 12y ago
I fail to see how insulation is easier to install than a nest, but other than that, it's a really interesting point of view. The nest really is the last item on the list when optimizing your heating bill.
- feld 12y ago
  Really? Automating turning off AC/Heat when you're not there saves a ton of money and is very low effort. Especially if you don't have a programmable thermostat at all. I cut my bill enough to cover the Nest in less than 3 months and I purchased it shortly after launch. For me it was the 80% and now I continue to work on fixing the rest of the problems with my AC/heat related costs.
  - ghaff 12y ago
    Some level of programmability is probably worthwhile although you can get a lot of the same effect by manually turning the thermostat up and down which I do a lot anyway. And if I didn't have a programmable thermostat I might well spring for the extra dollars on the Nest if only for the cool factor. As it is I have a programmable thermostat that mostly works just fine. A lot of people are likely in that situation. I've thought of getting a Nest but there's some finite probability I'd run into installation problems and it is unlikely to save me much if any money. Edit: I should mention it would be for heat only. I don't have AC.
    - feld 12y ago
      Yes, because the average person has the willpower to go walk over to their thermostat all the time -- especially when they leave / come home. Not a chance.
      - wodenokoto 12y ago
        Turning off your heating/cooling apparatus is the most natural thing for people in Japan. Don't people turn their lights off in the us?
DannyBee 12y ago
This is actually a really bad comparison. Not just for the reasons other people mention (it require open walls, etc), but because you miss another serious issue: Fiberglass insulation is, by and large, installed very badly. Leaving even small gaps between the stud and batt (as most installers do), or compressing it too much (as most installers do) loses not an incremental amount, but instead almost 50% of the insulation value. This is why open cell spray foam, even at the same r-value, does so much of a better job - it's less prone to installation error. In any case, people often do not get the expected value from insulation, due to installation error. It's like people who spend 15k on a new HVAC system, and then have them install the whole thing using flex duct. People don't know enough to know what "right" looks like. By comparison, Nest requires almost no brains to install and use properly.
SyncTheory13 12y ago
I live in an old brick home in St. Louis (1888) and have read that insulation can cause the walls to not "breathe" properly, causing accelerated degradation. I'd love to insulate better, but I'd have to tear our the walls, move everything out of each room (with all the dust), and then I could potentially cause a bigger problem. I do need nicer windows, but those are pretty expensive in relation to a Nest. It's a case-by-case basis, but I've been thinking about buying a Nest for years... I think I could recoup the cost over my standard programmable thermostat in just one leaky-window winter... And I can install it myself in a couple hours (taking my time). Combine the previously stated benefits with the fact that I have roommates (replace with active family for some) and it'll adjust to our widely varied schedules - and I can adjust it whenever I think about it... When I wake up freezing because the roommates shut the heat off before a cold front hit; when I get to work and realize I left it set too high, etc.

by VLM 12y ago

nasalgoat 12y ago

Most homes already have a thermostat installed, making a Nest install pretty easy. Insulation generally requires open walls and/or roof to install, upping the difficulty a great deal.

wodenokoto 12y ago

I fail to see how insulation is easier to install than a nest, but other than that, it's a really interesting point of view. The nest really is the last item on the list when optimizing your heating bill.

feld 12y ago
Really? Automating turning off AC/Heat when you're not there saves a ton of money and is very low effort. Especially if you don't have a programmable thermostat at all. I cut my bill enough to cover the Nest in less than 3 months and I purchased it shortly after launch. For me it was the 80% and now I continue to work on fixing the rest of the problems with my AC/heat related costs.
- ghaff 12y ago
  Some level of programmability is probably worthwhile although you can get a lot of the same effect by manually turning the thermostat up and down which I do a lot anyway. And if I didn't have a programmable thermostat I might well spring for the extra dollars on the Nest if only for the cool factor. As it is I have a programmable thermostat that mostly works just fine. A lot of people are likely in that situation. I've thought of getting a Nest but there's some finite probability I'd run into installation problems and it is unlikely to save me much if any money. Edit: I should mention it would be for heat only. I don't have AC.
  - feld 12y ago
    Yes, because the average person has the willpower to go walk over to their thermostat all the time -- especially when they leave / come home. Not a chance.
    - wodenokoto 12y ago
      Turning off your heating/cooling apparatus is the most natural thing for people in Japan. Don't people turn their lights off in the us?

DannyBee 12y ago

This is actually a really bad comparison. Not just for the reasons other people mention (it require open walls, etc), but because you miss another serious issue: Fiberglass insulation is, by and large, installed very badly. Leaving even small gaps between the stud and batt (as most installers do), or compressing it too much (as most installers do) loses not an incremental amount, but instead almost 50% of the insulation value. This is why open cell spray foam, even at the same r-value, does so much of a better job - it's less prone to installation error. In any case, people often do not get the expected value from insulation, due to installation error. It's like people who spend 15k on a new HVAC system, and then have them install the whole thing using flex duct. People don't know enough to know what "right" looks like. By comparison, Nest requires almost no brains to install and use properly.

SyncTheory13 12y ago

I live in an old brick home in St. Louis (1888) and have read that insulation can cause the walls to not "breathe" properly, causing accelerated degradation. I'd love to insulate better, but I'd have to tear our the walls, move everything out of each room (with all the dust), and then I could potentially cause a bigger problem. I do need nicer windows, but those are pretty expensive in relation to a Nest. It's a case-by-case basis, but I've been thinking about buying a Nest for years... I think I could recoup the cost over my standard programmable thermostat in just one leaky-window winter... And I can install it myself in a couple hours (taking my time). Combine the previously stated benefits with the fact that I have roommates (replace with active family for some) and it'll adjust to our widely varied schedules - and I can adjust it whenever I think about it... When I wake up freezing because the roommates shut the heat off before a cold front hit; when I get to work and realize I left it set too high, etc.