4 ms·

As far as 30 is concerned, we already make smokers and drinkers pay more taxes through the various huge taxes on cigarettes and alcohol directly (at least in my

by girvo 12y ago

As far as 30 is concerned, we already make smokers and drinkers pay more taxes through the various huge taxes on cigarettes and alcohol directly (at least in my country). It's not so far fetched, and if it reduces obesity then it's a net good for society.

frtab 12y ago
The equivalent of taxes on alcohol and cigarettes would be a tax on unhealthy food, not a tax on unhealthy people.
- girvo 12y ago
  That was the solution I was implying, although I did so badly :)
snarfy 12y ago
Smokers die sooner and cost the system less. You should get a tax break for smoking. Forcing people's choices is not a net good for society.
- DanBC 12y ago
  > Smokers die sooner and cost the system less. This is only true if you have high taxes on tobacco products. Those high taxes introduce other distortions -- smuggling of tobacco and increased use of counterfeit product. Smuggling is sometimes done by criminal gangs. Counterfeit product is considerably more harmful than actual products. The reason we want to stop people from smoking has little to do with the fact that they die earlier, but that they live for years with reduced quality of life and that they harm the health of their children.
  - snarfy 12y ago
    Actually, it's true without any tobacco taxes. http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pmed.0050029 http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fj... >Because of differences in life expectancy, however, lifetime health expenditure was highest among healthy-living people and lowest for smokers.
  - crdoconnor 12y ago
    >This is only true if you have high taxes on tobacco products. Those high taxes introduce other distortions -- smuggling of tobacco and increased use of counterfeit product. It also introduces other "distortions", like fewer people smoking, especially kids. http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/research/factsheets/pdf/0146.pdf http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/research/factsheets/pdf/0146.... But, y'know. Free market uber alles.
    - DanBC 12y ago
      I'm in favour of higher tobacco prices! But the UK spends about £8bn treating smoking related illness and gets £12bn from excise duties and we have much higher rates on tobacco products. The UK taxes on cigarettes are high. About 77% of the price of a pack of 20 is tax. > This is, according to the Treasury, equivalent to more than 2 pence on the basic rate of income tax or over 11 pence on the top rate of income tax. On a typical pack of 20 premium cigarettes the total tax burden of £6.17 ($9.66) ccounts for 77% of the recommended retail price (RRP) of £7.98 ($12.50) http://www.the-tma.org.uk/policy-legislation/taxation/ http://www.the-tma.org.uk/policy-legislation/taxation/ The highest rate in the US is $6.16 (£3.19) (although most places in US have much lower tax rates). http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/research/factsheets/pdf/0097.pdf http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/research/factsheets/pdf/0097.... When people smuggle cigarettes to sell illegally they don't care about minimum age laws, so you get children smoking counterfeit product: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2123054.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2123054.stm > Many are being bought by schoolchildren, according to trading standards officers in the borough of Camden, north London. Counterfeit tobacco is a recurring problem in the UK. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-16786358 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-16786358 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4096911.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4096911.stm http://bbc.co.uk/news/health-28940681 http://bbc.co.uk/news/health-28940681
flycaliguy 12y ago
Sit down with a social worker and try to explain the new weigh in system for a long list of reasons to abandon this concept entirely. I don't even understand why this list is being taken seriously. The guy basically just said: I want to have GPS for my dog, be able to buy nice art and, ya know, just live in a society governed by regulated physical fitness like some sort of Nazi.

by girvo 12y ago

frtab 12y ago

The equivalent of taxes on alcohol and cigarettes would be a tax on unhealthy food, not a tax on unhealthy people.

girvo 12y ago
That was the solution I was implying, although I did so badly :)

snarfy 12y ago

Smokers die sooner and cost the system less. You should get a tax break for smoking. Forcing people's choices is not a net good for society.

DanBC 12y ago
> Smokers die sooner and cost the system less. This is only true if you have high taxes on tobacco products. Those high taxes introduce other distortions -- smuggling of tobacco and increased use of counterfeit product. Smuggling is sometimes done by criminal gangs. Counterfeit product is considerably more harmful than actual products. The reason we want to stop people from smoking has little to do with the fact that they die earlier, but that they live for years with reduced quality of life and that they harm the health of their children.
- snarfy 12y ago
  Actually, it's true without any tobacco taxes. http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pmed.0050029 http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fj... >Because of differences in life expectancy, however, lifetime health expenditure was highest among healthy-living people and lowest for smokers.
- crdoconnor 12y ago
  >This is only true if you have high taxes on tobacco products. Those high taxes introduce other distortions -- smuggling of tobacco and increased use of counterfeit product. It also introduces other "distortions", like fewer people smoking, especially kids. http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/research/factsheets/pdf/0146.pdf http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/research/factsheets/pdf/0146.... But, y'know. Free market uber alles.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    I'm in favour of higher tobacco prices! But the UK spends about £8bn treating smoking related illness and gets £12bn from excise duties and we have much higher rates on tobacco products. The UK taxes on cigarettes are high. About 77% of the price of a pack of 20 is tax. > This is, according to the Treasury, equivalent to more than 2 pence on the basic rate of income tax or over 11 pence on the top rate of income tax. On a typical pack of 20 premium cigarettes the total tax burden of £6.17 ($9.66) ccounts for 77% of the recommended retail price (RRP) of £7.98 ($12.50) http://www.the-tma.org.uk/policy-legislation/taxation/ http://www.the-tma.org.uk/policy-legislation/taxation/ The highest rate in the US is $6.16 (£3.19) (although most places in US have much lower tax rates). http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/research/factsheets/pdf/0097.pdf http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/research/factsheets/pdf/0097.... When people smuggle cigarettes to sell illegally they don't care about minimum age laws, so you get children smoking counterfeit product: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2123054.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2123054.stm > Many are being bought by schoolchildren, according to trading standards officers in the borough of Camden, north London. Counterfeit tobacco is a recurring problem in the UK. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-16786358 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-16786358 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4096911.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4096911.stm http://bbc.co.uk/news/health-28940681 http://bbc.co.uk/news/health-28940681

flycaliguy 12y ago

Sit down with a social worker and try to explain the new weigh in system for a long list of reasons to abandon this concept entirely. I don't even understand why this list is being taken seriously. The guy basically just said: I want to have GPS for my dog, be able to buy nice art and, ya know, just live in a society governed by regulated physical fitness like some sort of Nazi.